Thursday, March 29, 2001 Ha'aretz Magazine 'If we get rid of both governments, we'll live in peace' A rare conversation with Tanzim fighters in Bethlehem: They claim that the street decides, not Arafat or Barghouti, and threaten to take their struggle deep into Israel By Gideon Levy How time flies: Six months ago today, the second Intifada erupted. But no one recalled that date as we sat on a sunlit balcony on the outskirts of Bethlehem last Sunday together with five Tanzim militants, who were armed to the teeth. It was the home of a mutual acquaintance: They got to know him in an Israeli jail, and I met him after his release. Mutual suspicions led us to choose his house as a meeting place: They were fearful of a trap being set by mistarvim (IDF undercover fighters); we were fearful of a trap being set by the Tanzim.Neither fear was realized. Nonetheless, in the course of the conversation, particularly during the first hour, one of them sat facing the street with his finger on the trigger of his machine-gun, alert to the slightest noise from the orchard or the road behind it - checking to see if we had been followed. After a while, the tension gradually dissipated. They say they have to be careful - Israel is after them. They don't sleep at home. One said he hadn't seen his three children for a month; his home in Beit Sahur faces the IDF's Shdema camp and could easily be hit from there. A., as we'll call the one who appeared to be the leader of the group and their main spokesman, says that, at the beginning of the week, someone who identified himself as a resident of Jenin called him and told him he had an important message for him from an uncle who is in an Israeli prison. A. offered to get him into Bethlehem after he had passed through all the roadblocks on the way from Jenin, but the man insisted on meeting near one of the roadblocks around the city. A. is convinced it was a trap that Israel tried to set, in order to assassinate him. He did not go to the meeting. They were children during the previous Intifada, stone throwers from Bethlehem. Now they are fulfilling their childhood dream from back then: They are armed fighters, part of an elite unit that is waging war on Israel. One of them once worked on Jaffa Street in Jerusalem and he'd like to go back there - maybe to hurt some Israelis. Another dreams of praying at Al- Aqsa; he's 23 and has never been there. Their appearance is similar to that of soldiers in elite Israeli units - Marines-style crewcuts, black diving watches, stylish vests and windbreakers; one wears an orange designer shirt, another sports No Fear sunglasses, which are just as fashionable in Bethlehem as in the Ramat Aviv mall. A., who gives orders into his cell phone almost non-stop, is wearing a pricey cologne. His friend is carrying three cellular phones. They all have weapons: Two are armed with both a machine gun and pistol; the rest have only pistols. A's pistol was hidden under his shirt - perhaps another mark of his seniority. They say they're all equal in the hierarchy. One machine gun - a long M-16 - was equipped with a sniper's sight. Their jacket pockets were bulging with ammunition. They arrived in three civilian cars, one with darkened windows and Israeli license plates, and two with green Palestinian plates - not red ones like on the official cars of the Palestinian Authority. Being visibly armed while in civilian dress evidently adds prestige on the Palestinian street. All have sturdy physiques; the one with his finger on the trigger is especially tall. When we asked to take their picture, the latter pulled out a black stocking cap he keeps in his pocket and put it on, making him look even more frightening. One refused to have his picture taken at all; the rest consented to have only the lower part of their bodies photographed, provided that their friend could see the shot through the camera lens. They tensed up when the light meter was aimed at them, even after two hours of conversation. They apparently have blood on their hands: One had killed at least two people - Palestinians - as will be described below. But they refused to elaborate on their actions. The youngest among them was 23. The eldest, 35, wore a baseball cap and had aviator sunglasses in his pocket. A. smoked an Israeli brand of cigarettes. Most knew Hebrew from time spent in jail. A. was the most fluent, but that's not the only reason he was the main spokesman. A. was born 27 years ago in Bethlehem, the youngest of six children. He has been imprisoned twice in Israel - two and a half years for his activity toward the end of the first Intifada and half a year for weapons possession in 1997. During Israel's assault on Hussein 'Abiyat - the first assassination victim - A. suffered shrapnel wounds to the head and body, as the scar on his skull bears witness. Khaled Abu Diya, who was killed by security forces in the Shaare Zedek emergency room to which he had been brought as a prisoner on May 12, 1997, was a relative of his. What is your objective? "If you fight M-16 bullets by having tanks fire on houses, it's not logical," says A. "If there are people - Shin Bet collaborators - who fire on Gilo with pistols just to give the soldiers and the IDF an excuse to respond - How many traitors and collaborators we've already caught! - and if you shoot at the boy Usama al-Qurabi and kill him in his home, and at a 73-year-old woman who's wounded in her home, then we have to react. Our objective is that if children in Beit Jala can't sleep, the children in Gilo shouldn't sleep either. This is what our commander said. You disturb us, we can disturb you. I can also block some road of yours. With the small weapons I have, I can't finish this whole business because these are problems that are at least 50 years old, but we want to be able to go from Bethlehem to Ramallah without roadblocks, and we want to pray at Al-Aqsa. In the end, there will be negotiations. Everyone knows that. We just want to come out against this situation now. "Forgive the expression, but if five or six Israelis are killed in Bethlehem, another million will come from Russia next month. That's how it is. Each month - more immigrants from Russia, from Ethiopia. We know that. We just want to say that we're here, that we have a right to this land. I know that in Gilo they have shelters for war and for chemical attacks. I just want to say that I'm here. I exist. I'm around. I can't just accept blows without responding. From Bethlehem, you can see Efrat, Tekoa, Neve Daniel - Bethlehem is being strangled. If I want to go to Al-'Abadiya or to go down to Al-Khader - I can't. There are roadblocks. I can't get there. And all this is because you say you want to protect the settlers. I ask - why did the settlers come here?" Why is all of this erupting just now? "You and I know that the negotiations reached a dead end. That's why it all started." And where is it leading? "God only knows how it will end. We have 500 martyrs and you have 50 killed. I don't know how high the numbers will go. It's important that, in the end, there's a solution that's good for everyone. It's not to either one's good for this situation to continue." The man in the baseball cap: "The Israelis use excessive force. They're not that weak that they have to use all the means at their disposal against an M-16 or someone throwing stones. Israel has used every kind of weaponry and hasn't left anything out. The only thing left is to wipe us all out. But we won't leave here like in 1948. We won't be refugees. Our houses will be our cemeteries. We won't leave. Despite all that Israel is doing to us." When will you stop shooting? A.: "When the big guys sit down at the negotiating table, I'm sure this will end immediately." Sharon is demanding that you first stop shooting. "The situation has deteriorated since Sharon came to power. The full closure on all the villages - If a kid or a sick person wants to get to the hospital, he can't. How many people have died at the roadblocks? It's a very, very difficult situation." Baseball cap: "For years, [reactions to] Sharon have been overblown. We know him. He's no worse than Barak. In the Arab countries, they've made too much of him. From our standpoint, Barak and Sharon are the same thing." And Peres? "They're all part of the same family." A.: "Peres did a massacre in Kafr Kana in a way that Sharon and Barak didn't." Is there any Israeli leader whom you view favorably? "The people. Look, I'm sitting here with you now and there's no problem. With the people, it's O.K. With the politicians and the governments, it's another story. In the middle of the disturbances, some Israeli antiques dealer entered Beit Jala and they gave him security and protection from our side. People from the PA wanted to arrest him and it caused friction between us. We told them that it was our business and that we wanted to protect him, and that's what happened. In the end, we're all human beings. And I'm sure that the soldier who's firing at us also has a family and children and wants to get back to them. It's the orders that he receives that are the problem. If we get rid of both governments, we'll live in peace." Who gives you orders? "Tanzim leaders as well as the situation. First of all, the situation. If you feel that the situation has improved a little, you want it to continue that way. But if you hear that the situation is bad - no one wants to stand there and do nothing." Can Arafat put a halt to your fire? "Not 100 percent. The street decides. It's true that Arafat is the president. But in every home, there's a martyr, or someone who was wounded, or a prisoner. That's what brought on the problems and the disturbances." Baseball cap: "Arafat didn't give the orders to start and he won't give the orders to stop." What about Marwan Barghouti? A.: "He's one of the senior people in the Fatah. But each area has its own commander and they're independent." Barghouti has proposed a change to a more populist Intifada. "That way the Israelis will kill even more - for each stone. It will stir up the citizens and the next day we'll be back to an even more violent and intense situation." The youngest of the group: "If the violence against us returns, we'll kill a lot of people. We've had it. If they kill us, we'll go into Israel and start letting loose there. In the Koran, it says that one of our martyrs is like 70, because we're guarding Al-Aqsa." Baseball cap: "We're tired of firing at tanks and at protected soldiers. If they push us too much, we'll come in and do suicide attacks. If more are killed, if the closure becomes even tighter and the assassinations continue - we'll move to this suicide policy." "Leave the suicides to Hamas," whispered one of his friends. "We'll go to Jaffa Street and commit suicide," said the one with his hand on the trigger. And the youngest: "My dream is to get to Al-Aqsa. To this day, I've never been able to. I don't know how you get to Al-Aqsa." It has been reported in Israel that you're collecting protection money from Beit Jala residents, so you won't shoot from there. A.: "That's a lie that the Israelis are spreading. The Israelis are trying to ruin the Tanzim's image. Quiet for Beit Jala residents is important to us. Their contentment is important to us." It's been a little quieter in your area in the past few weeks. Why? "Since the boy Usama al-Qurabi from Beit Jala was killed, no one else has been killed here. This is what has led to the quiet. Nothing happened to stir up the people. If the Israelis assassinate someone, it right away leads to an escalation. And that's just what they do. If they see a little quiet, they assassinate someone and it starts all over again. Every time they assassinate someone, we enlist lots of new members." But just a week ago, a settler was killed on the road here. (The conversation took place before the killing of the baby in Hebron - G. L.) "That was outside of Bethlehem and doesn't have anything to do with us." What is a legitimate target in your eyes? "First of all, the settlers. The settlers and the soldiers. The soldier who shoots at us and the settler who could be living in Tel Aviv. Why does he come to live among us? Here, on our land? They pave a highway over our land, settle on our land - Why? You could say that the settlers and the soldiers are on the same level." And other Israelis? "No. I told you before that, between us - between me and you, there are no problems because you live in Tel Aviv. In Hebron, the problem is the 400 settlers. Take them out and there's no problem. And in Bethlehem - if I want to go around with you now, I can't get more than 500 meters from here, because there's a roadblock at Al-Khader. Why? Because of the settlers. The soldiers want to make the settlers secure. If there were no settlers and no need to maintain their security, then both the soldiers and I could move around much more. Rachel's Tomb is in the middle of Bethlehem. Because of Rachel's Tomb, there are soldiers in the middle of Bethlehem. And I can't get there. I can't get to the Al-A'ida refugee camp. Our main cemetery is next to Rachel's Tomb and we can't go there to bury our dead. Since the Intifada began, four new cemeteries have opened because of this. I can't go down to the east because the Shdema camp is there. What is it doing there? The main problem is the settlers. If the settlers were gone, the problem would be gone as well." What's a typical day like for you? "Today is just like yesterday and tomorrow will be the same. We get up late and go to bed late. We live like your soldiers. We are soldiers. We go to training, do lookouts. We start with the news in the morning and go out on patrols." Military actions? "No comment" Have you shot at settlers, at Gilo? "God knows." Only one of them agreed to give his full name - for one purpose only. Ibrahim 'Abiyat, cousin of the assassinated Hussein 'Abiyat, heard that it was once reported in Ha'aretz that he had raped and murdered two people. He was outraged and wanted to correct this serious offense to his reputation. He didn't rape anyone, he said; he just killed. "At the beginning of 1998, there was a problem in the family, with a female cousin from Kfar Artas. I killed the cousin and her boyfriend. She was married to someone else. I was sentenced to life by a PA court and released at the start of this Intifada. In the PA, they were afraid that Israel would blow up the jails, so they released almost everybody. In your newspaper, it said that I'd raped a girl and killed her and been given a life sentence for it, and that my criminal friends wrecked the courtroom afterward. This is untrue. It offended my honor. I didn't rape anyone and I never even thought of doing a thing like that. My friends know me. They know I wouldn't." Incidentally, in the February 11 report by Amos Harel in Ha'aretz, 'Abiyat's name was not mentioned at all. All it said was that a resident of the city had been sentenced to life imprisonment for the rape of a city resident, that his friends had gone wild and wrecked the court building, and that Chairman Arafat had eventually reduced his sentence _________________________________________________________________________
