PRENSA LATINA [Cuba] -- Friday, 20 July 2001
Interview with FARC's Raul Reyes
By Luis Enrique Gonzalez
PRENSA LATINA [Cuba]
Friday, 20 July 2001
Interview with FARC's Raul Reyes
--------------------------------
By Luis Enrique Gonzalez
LOS POZOS, Colombia -- The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
have reiterated their determination to continue the struggle for power and
to build a country with social justice. They are willing to do this
through dialogue or insurrection.
The talks between the government of President Andres Pastrana and the FARC
are being held amid difficulties resulting from almost four decades of
conflict.
The process has just proved to the Colombian people and the world its
first concrete results: the humanitarian exchange of prisoners and the
unilateral release, by the insurgent movement, of more than 300 soldiers
captured in combat during the last four years.
Under persistent rain and only protected by the thick foliage and the
guerrilla's rustic buildings, Commander Raul Reyes Luis Eduardo Davila , a
member of the FARC's National Secretariat talked to Prensa Latina about
issues related to the peace.
It was a flowing conversation during which he expressed the FARC's views
regarding the country's current situation, the forthcoming elections, the
future of the demilitarized zone and other subjects, some delicate issues
involving the search for a process of reconciliation.
FARC's attitude regarding elections
Gonzalez How does the FARC view the electoral process and what would the
rebel strategy be to confront it?
Reyes The FARC has a single strategy that has been defined at all the
conferences. This facilitates our activity and avoids last-minute
problems. All our guidelines are in accordance with those established at
the conferences of the General Staff and of the Secretariat.
When we analysed the Colombian electoral process at the Eighth Conference,
we reached the conclusion that in Colombia there are no freedoms for
political groups that oppose the ruling system. We reached this conclusion
following the orgy of blood unleashed against the Patriotic Union during
which more than 5,000 of its members were killed, the indiscriminate
killings of defenders of human rights, trade union leaders, Indians and
journalists, merely because they opposed the policies of the state.
That is why in the forthcoming elections we see no future for the
candidates representing the interests of the Colombian people - interests
that differ from those of the controlling class that today rules the
country. That is why the candidates who have a chance of becoming
Pastrana's successors are committed to the same policy, the neoliberal and
unconditional policy to support all actions of the US government in our
country and in the region. This is why Plan Colombia will be followed by
Pastrana's successor.
The first thing that the Colombian presidential candidates do is travel to
Washington to receive Uncle Sam's blessing. We see nothing different in
Pastrana's successor, unless in the time that is still left for the
elections, a pluralist, patriotic and democratic candidate should appear.
The candidate would have to be a person who will commit himself to
carrying out the profound changes needed by the country and to ensuring,
under these conditions, peace which would be under the candidate's
"pluralist" banner.
But not a Roman peace or one of submission; we want peace with social
justice, the peace of true liberties, a peace in which the state is the
true guarantor of the Colombian people's basic rights.
Gonzalez How would the arrival of a new president affect the peace
process?
Reyes The document we issued with the release of the 242 soldiers states
various views expressed by the FARC's General Staff. In it we stated that
we have been able to observe that the dialogues held to date are very
important.
It had been years since the FARC had sat down to talk and in Colombia we
were living in a situation of violent confrontations without talks. Today,
despite the difficulties, there are talks and we have earned trust as we
have also learned that it is possible to reach agreements through
dialogue. Proof of this is the unilateral release of more than 300
policemen and soldiers.
It is amid a critical situation that they wish to impose a new candidate
of the bourgeoisie and the Colombian capitalists; a candidate who will
continue with the privatizations and who will follow faithfully the
neoliberal policy directed by Washington and the formulas issued by the
International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
"The FARC's goal is to be the government"
Gonzalez Is urban warfare a FARC option under the current circumstances?
Reyes See here, the FARC's goal is to be the government. The FARC wants to
become a new government to offer the Colombian people the possibility of a
worthy life. The FARC wants to begin to build socialism in Colombia. To do
this we need to have a political force capable of reaching every single
corner of the country.
The FARC is present in all the cities in Colombia. It is present in
Bogota, Cali, Medellin and in Barranquilla. It is also present in the
smallest towns and military intelligence and the government, as well as
the foreign intelligence agencies, are aware of this. What has happened
now, following the statements made by Commander Jorge Briceno, is that the
Colombian media tried to make a big issue of this to cover up what the
FARC was generously organizing, which was the unilateral release of the
more than 300 prisoners.
It is nothing new. We have never hidden our commitment to the struggle for
power. And in our struggle for power we have established that we give
priority to dialogues and agreements. But it that path is closed, then we
shall take another path: the path of insurrection, until we achieve final
victory.
"A socialism for Colombians"
Gonzalez Has the FARC already considered ruling; with what programme? How
would you avoid the pressures from the centres of power?
Reyes I must admit that we have yet to define this aspect. However, we
have thought about it to some extent. We start out based on the idea that
the type of government that should be installed in Colombia must be in
accordance with the country's situation and in accordance with the world's
technical and scientific development.
We are aware that Colombia is an immensely wealthy country, a country
which can feed itself and finance itself and a country which cannot be
blocked completely. We are also aware that imperialism and foreign
financial capital will exert pressure, they will always exert pressure and
we know this. Likewise, we believe that the socialist model we should
implement in Colombia is a socialism for Colombians. A socialism in
accordance with our current situation. We shall have to learn from the
valuable experiences of the Soviet model, of the Cuban model and of the
Vietnamese and Chinese models. We shall also have to learn from the
mistakes made by others and make sure that we do not make the same
mistakes. However, we have never thought about copying the models of
others.
We are capable of drafting our own model with the participation of all the
other socialist parties or systems that have much experience. They can
help us to draft our own system in accordance with the situation
experienced by Colombia.
Gonzalez Would the FARC accept the contribution of other political forces
in the government proposal for national reconciliation?
Reyes Of course we would. The FARC has proposed a pluralist, patriotic and
democratic government. The FARC is not attempting to establish itself
alone in government without the help of all the sectors that wish to take
part in this new country.
Therefore, the idea is to call on all the various social sectors; the
different political forces, even the members of the traditional parties;
the leftist forces as a whole; and the labour movements so that together
we may sit down and design the country that will remove Colombia from the
crisis, ensure the young people their schooling, education and culture,
and protect the lives of all Colombians.
The war option
Gonzalez Should the dialogues fail how would an armed triumph come about?
Reyes It is a war waged by mobile guerrillas because it is operational
throughout the country.
Those of us within the FARC have not reached the state of defending
territories. We have a presence in the more than 1,000 municipalities in
Colombia, and in particular in all the departments throughout the country.
We apply the teachings of Commander Ernesto Che Guevara regarding
guerrillas always being on the move.
They strike, run, come back and strike again. That is how guerrillas are
able to develop constantly and to continue to strike. If a general
offensive were launched we would have to make some adjustments.
There will be times when we shall have to carry out actions of a
conventional nature but without overlooking the most important, the
essence of guerrillas, in other words, their constant, unconventional
movement.
Peace through negotiations?
Gonzalez Does the FARC truly believe that the negotiating process could
bring peace to Colombia?
Reyes The dialogues will continue to be successful as long as the
Colombian ruling class is truly determined to invest in peace. If there is
no determination, the dialogues will fail and the responsibility for the
failure will fall on the Colombian ruling class. The FARC alone cannot
make peace.
Peace must be arrived at by the two parties in conflict, the Colombian
state and the people in arms; in other words, the FARC and the other part
of the Colombian guerrilla movement, our ELN National Liberation Army
comrades.
We have agreed that it is necessary to rebuild the country. We must remake
the country, make a new government system, a new state with institutions
different from the ones we have today.
The government has agreed with us on this. They are aware that things must
be changed. The problem is that when it comes to putting their hands into
their pockets or if an issue threatens their interests, everything comes
to a halt.
However, they are aware that there are serious difficulties and that peace
cannot be achieved as long as important changes to the state's structure
are not carried out.
At this moment we are discussing the first topic: how to create jobs. We
have yet to reach agreements. One cannot help but think what it will be
like when we broach topics involving the armed forces, national security,
international relations and establishing a position regarding how the
relations with the United States should be handled.
We have said that we should have relations with all the governments of the
world but these must be relations based on equality. We cannot accept
relations that seek to impose on us the policies of other governments. We
must have political relations of respect and which are reciprocally
beneficial.
It will not be easy to reach agreements on these topics if the Colombian
ruling class continues to believe that the way to take the food from the
Colombian people and the way to take the rights to health and education
rights from the people is by killing them.
Chavez's Bolivarian ideals in Colombia?
Gonzalez The Venezuelan case has been a sui generis case. We are talking
about a process that resulted from a rebellion of worthy soldiers with
Bolivarian ideals, such as President Hugo Chavez's ideas. Is this
variation possible in Colombia?
Reyes We now know that in Colombia there is a group of patriotic soldiers
who have been very encouraged by Chavez's victory and his commitment to
the Bolivarian feat. But the repression and the Santanderism relating to
Santander are such within the army hierarchy that those soldiers have to
be careful. They cannot do many things in public, because the least that
would happen to them is to be charged as traitors and given a
dishonourable discharge. Therefore, they will have to keep a low profile
for a long time.
Paramilitarism
Gonzalez Apparently, the armed forces recently decided to "attack"
paramilitarism. We learnt recently that Carlos Castano had resigned. What
is really going on?
Reyes What we have in Colombia is a paramilitary policy. We cannot say
that this policy emerged with the Pastrana government. It dates back many
years. When one talks with Marulanda Manuel Marulanda Velez (Pedro Antonio
Marin Marin) , he recalls that the paramilitary groups were in existence
long before Marquetalia; they existed back in the days when Jorge Eliecer
Gaitan was killed and the confrontation between Liberals and Conservatives
began. In those days there more than 300,000 people died in Colombia. The
army and the police created their groups. Some gangs, following the orders
of the Conservatives, would kill Liberals but they would never carry out
these actions while in uniform.
What we have had in Colombia for many years has been a state policy to
assassinate the unarmed political opposition. That is why the guerrilla
movement has grown in Colombia. That is why the ELN has such an important
presence in the country and why the FARC is such a big organization, which
is continuing to grow throughout the country. And this is the reason why
the Colombian Communist Party and other leftist forces confront many
difficulties in trying to grow and have a strong effect on the country's
political life.
The parties, the rulers, and the leaders have not permitted the
organization of political groups and movements whose interests are
different to those they defend.
What we see happening is the reorganization of the leadership of the
paramilitaries as ordered by the military high command. We know who the
real head of the Colombian paramilitaries is: Gen Jorge Enrique Mora
Rangel the head of the Colombian army and under him he has his men. When
it is in their interests, these men act in the name of paramilitarism,
against the unarmed civilian population and against the sector they
believe to be friendly with or supporting the guerrillas. They also act
against potential objectors to the ruling system.
A gentleman they call Castano is simply the pawn that the military
leadership uses. He is presented as the visible head of the
paramilitaries.
The DMZ
Gonzalez Is the demilitarized zone a sample of the New Colombia?
Reyes Yes. Obviously what we have here are two Colombias. The Colombia of
the financial groups, of the economic groups; and the Colombia of the
people who are waiting to solve the tiniest problems, from food to
education, land to plough, jobs... ellipsis as received This is what we
see in the demilitarized zone.
The Colombia over there is where the state is and this is the
demilitarized zone where the talks are being held, where apparently the
state has no presence. The people here live a better life because there
are no robberies, no killings and no abuse.
Gonzalez October is the deadline for the demilitarized area. Do you
believe this deadline will be extended?
Reyes Yes. The decree that established this zone expires in October. We
have no idea what the government will do between now and then. We do not
know if Pastrana will have the political strength and the support of those
who govern with him to extend the decree. It is difficult to predict what
will happen. The FARC has injected some oxygen into the situation with the
unilateral release of more policemen and soldiers in addition to the
exchange of the ill prisoners.
If this gesture is used by Pastrana to solve some of the problems that are
affecting the Colombian population, such as the subsidy for the
unemployed, then perhaps he will be able to breathe new life into the
process and, under those conditions, extend the deadline. He could then
end his term in office as a president who did something for peace.
Now, supposing the demilitarized zone is not extended. This would be very
serious for Colombia and the international community. The international
community is hoping that the Colombians will be able to find the paths to
understanding and reconciliation.
If the government were to decide to end the demilitarized zone, it would
be ending the dialogues. The FARC has said 1,000 times that it will
continue to talk as long as there is a zone for holding the talks and that
it will talk in Colombia and not abroad. If the government cancels the
demilitarized zone, the FARC will continue to fight in order to resume the
dialogues but obviously this will be done under different conditions and
the responsibility of what may happen during the new confrontation would
fall directly on the state, the government, the Colombian ruling class.
Effects of spraying drug crops
Gonzalez What is your opinion regarding the press reports on the arrival
of the so-called "dogs of war," in other words, US war veterans?
Reyes This factor has had no direct contact with the FARC. However, with
the people things are different. In the Putumayo region, on the border
with Ecuador, the crop-dusting activities have proved to be disastrous.
Not only have they destroyed the illegal products that provided a living
for the people but they have also contaminated the environment, the water,
they have destroyed food products and, in some cases, the residents of
these areas have developed illnesses. This is all in addition to the total
destruction caused by the bombings and strafing.
It is a situation we could use to explain that the Plan Colombia basically
affects the unarmed civilian population.
Smearing the FARC as drug traffickers
Gonzalez How should the term narcoguerrilla be interpreted?
Reyes There is a strategy aimed at distorting the ideological and
political definition of the FARC; its commitment to the people in the
struggle for power. That is the reason for the campaign to try and link
the FARC with drug trafficking. On various occasions the FARC has said
that it is not involved in drug trafficking, that in principle it condemns
drug trafficking, that at no time has it grown or sold coca, that at no
time has it sold favours to drug traffickers.
However, despite all this, military intelligence, through some media, are
bent on continuing with this campaign. It is a issue of double standards
because we all know where the drug money goes. All one has to do to know
this is read Alfonso Lopez Michelsen's book "Palabras Pendientes" "Pending
Words" . In the book Michelsen himself says that since the days when he
was president of the republic, in 1974, all the presidents who have worn
the presidential sash have done so thanks to drug-trafficking money.
And Lopez Michelsen is no revolutionary. He is an ideologist of Colombian
capitalism. In Colombia drug trafficking is in the presidential campaigns
and in Congress. Many senior officers receive drug-trafficking money. Much
of the country's economy is supported by drug-trafficking money; it is a
reality of the Colombian economy.
But despite all this, Colombia is the country with the smallest presence
of drug-trafficking money. The huge amounts of drug-trafficking money are
found in the United States and circulate within the world's financial
system.
I recall a study conducted by Noam Chomsky in which it is stated that all
the drug-trafficking money circulates through the channels of the
international financial capitals and that 95 per cent of this money
remains in the United States.
That is where the best offers are found and where a large part of the
chemical precursors are produced. It is also known that many Europeans use
drugs. This is all double standards. I do not see Gringos being arrested
for drug trafficking. Mostly Latinos are arrested and especially
Colombians.
Double standards are behind all of this and there is also a campaign
against the FARC to make it illegal and to separate it from its true
nature, that of being a revolutionary organization.
But the very presence of more than 30 friendly countries of the peace
process working within the facilitating group and the political relations
these countries have with those governments, states and political parties,
have proved what all this campaign is: a big lie. No state or government
is going to send its representatives to meet drug traffickers.
FARC's revenue
Gonzalez Then how does the guerrilla movement support itself?
Reyes From its creation in 1964 - on 27 May we celebrated our 37th
anniversary - the FARC has developed several ways to self-finance itself.
Wherever we are, depending on the climate, the fronts, blocs and companies
produce. What do they produce? Beans, sugar cane, brown-sugar loaves,
fodder. We raise cattle, pigs and chickens. In this region - San Vicente
del Caguan - there are about 100,000 fish in breeding ponds.
We have large plantain and yucca crops. There are also businessmen and
owners of shops who provide us with rice, beans, sugar, clothes and things
like that. In addition to all this, the FARC charges a tax. We have
explained this openly in law 002. This law consists of demanding that
national businesses and private citizens with more than 1m dollars to
their name must pay taxes.
We have been charging this tax. And the people pay it because they know
they have to do so. There are others who do not want to pay the tax and
they are the "tax evaders".
Because the FARC has no jails, these people are held until they pay. They
are the ones we are said to have kidnapped. They also describe as
kidnapped those soldiers and policemen taken prisoners in combat. Later,
this entire story about the kidnappings also becomes part of the campaign
of those who are seeking to show the FARC as an organization that violates
the principles of humanitarian international law.
The people, however, are the victims of violation of their human rights by
the governments.
Why the FARC wants an exchange law
Gonzalez Why does the FARC insist on the need for an exchange law?
Reyes The situation of our comrades is very serious. They live in
overcrowded spaces, they go hungry and are subjected to all kinds of
pressures. And that is not all. Their lives are in constant danger because
provocateurs, dressed as paramilitaries or soldiers, are sent to the jails
to threaten the physical integrity of our comrades.
That is why we had to organize them to defend themselves in the prisons.
They are held as common criminals. That is why the FARC has undertaken the
task of rescuing them as soon as possible. In Colombia there is no
political right. That is why our comrades, political prisoners who are
fighting for a different Colombia, are described as bandits.
There are more than 300 who are being detained. These are not only members
of the FARC but of other revolutionary organizations as well. There are
also people who are not members of any of those groups but who provided a
service and we have included them in this list. They are also doing this
to be able to say that since there is no political struggle, the soldiers
that we captured in combat are not political prisoners.
Gonzalez Does this mean that we could see more actions such as the one we
saw at La Picota?
Reyes Obviously, as long as there are prisoners and as long as the
confrontations continue, anything could happen. Likewise, there may be
more soldiers and policemen captured in combat, and members of the FARC
and the ELN could be murdered or imprisoned. What we have in Colombia is a
war and a class struggle of the ruling system against the people, and the
people are seeking a way to defend themselves and build a new model of
government.
The peace process
Gonzalez What can we expect out of the peace process?
Reyes What we could see next, what we are expecting, is the government
responding to our unilateral gesture.
A response, not for the FARC but for the people. This response must be one
that creates employment and abolishes laws that are repressive,
intimidating and exclude, such as Legislative Decree 012. The intensity of
the paramilitary activities must be reduced and exemplary punishment given
to those soldiers, policemen and politicians committed to that orgy of
blood that is inflicted through paramilitarism in Colombia.
________________________________________________________________
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