OK, I see now you weren't just making a database for the keys to your
cars in the back-40. :-)

It looks interesting, and I would like to spend a little time thinking
about it, but I have a couple of questions just-for-now. (See
interspersed remarks)

Ralph Shumaker wrote:
>..
> OK, making things a little less simple, how about this:
> 
> Bear with me as I attempt to present this in a way that doesn't mangle
> it all into a big mess.
> 
> The H75 appears to have *zero* substitutes.  But that kee is used by
> several Ford vehicles (not to mention Mercury, Lincoln, and others). 
> Just Ford alone has 25 entries using that kee.
> 
> It's not as simple as saying "the Ranger takes the H75" because the H75
> was used by the Ranger from 97 thru 98 and during 05.  Some (not all)
> models of the Ranger used the H75 in 96, and 99 thru 00.  And the Ranger
> only accounts for 4 of the 25 entries for that kee.
> 
> If I'm making a kee for a vehicle that calls for the H67 and I'm out of
> that kee, then I can substitute the H54, H55, H62, or H66.  Now, I'm not
> sure I trust the H55 and H62 info, because only one car lists those two

Where does the list (lists) come from? Car mfgr? Kee (keemaker?) mfgr?

> as substitutes.  Other than this one car, all but 2 of the others list
> both the H54 and H66 as substitutes.  Two cars list only the H54 as an
> acceptable substitute, but probably the H66 will work too (in other
> words, the exclusion of the H66 on those two lines was probably a typo).
> 
> All substitutes are nearly identical to the first kee in the tail of the
> kee.  Most differences in substitutes are in the head or neck of the
> kee.  The H62 has a rather large head and probably could not substitute
> for any other kee.  On some, the neck is not as long and would prevent
> them from substituting in for other kees.  The H54 can substitute in for
> several others (including the H62) because it has a long neck and a
> relatively small head.
> 
> There are 25 entries that call for the H67.  One of these lists the H54,
> H62, and H55 as substitutes.  Two list only the H54 as a substitute. 
> The other 22 list the H54 and the H66 as substitutes.
> 
> For my concerns, I don't care that one car lists different alternates
> than all the others.  My main concern is that each primary just show a
> list of possible alternates.  Maybe I will add a field to show how many
> times a particular alternate is listed for a specific primary.  But I
> don't feel the need to track which car calls for which alternates.  The
> book I get the information from often has information changing from one

book: Some kind of 3rd party compendium? A trade tool, maybe.

> year to the next, and *not* necessarily for corrections.  I think this
> book is manually typed each year... 

 heh! people still do that? =-O

>.. Information that is correct one year
> can be wrong the next.  I only want my database to show which primary
> kee the car calls for.  And my database will have info from different
> years of the books to help compensate for the errors.  I may even add
> another field to indicate U, C, or W for Unconfirmed, confirmed Correct,
> confirmed Wrong, and possibly even V for Varies.

Just a thought: it may be much easiest to do this in 2 stages.
1. assume there are no such conflicts to worry about,
   (but at least reserving the thought there will be)
2. extend (1) to accommodate those conflicts

> 
> On Ford, the H62 was only used on the Escort, and even there, only from
> 1991 thru 1996.  The H54 is the only listed substitute.
> 
> Only Ford (not including transponder kee entries):
> 
> Entries   Primary   Substitutes
>    2       H70
>   25       H75
>   22       H67     H54 H66
>   10       H51     H53
>   36       H50     H52
>    2       H78
>    2       H71
>    1       H67     H54 H62 H55
>    4       H54     H60
>    1       H76
>    1       H62     H54
>    1       H53     H51
>    1       H52     H50
>    2       H59     MZ16
>    2       H65     MZ27
>    2       H66     H54
>    1     S1186TS
>   10       H54     H60 H67
>    1     1185T-P   H54
>    1    S1185T-P   H50
>    1       H55     H54
>    2       RV4
>    2      62FT
>    1       WB2
>    2       MZ5     MZ10
>    1       MZ9
>    1       MZ4
>    2       H67     H54
> 
> Or, put another way:
> Primary  Substitutes
> H50      H52*36
> H51      H53*10
> H52      H50*1
> H53      H51*1
> H54      H60*14
> H54      H67*10
> H55      H54*1
> H59      MZ16*2
> H62      H54*1
> H65      MZ27*2
> H66      H54*2
> H67      H54*24
> H67      H55*1
> H67      H62*1
> H67      H66*22
> MZ5      MZ10*2
> 1185T-P  H54*1
> S1185T-P H50*1
> 
> Now, the ones that only show 1 occurrence in this final list, I'm not so
> sure that I trust.  For example, the only occurrence of the H52 being
> replaced by the H50 is more likely to have been a typo in the book, and
> that car *actually* call for the H50 and replaceable by the H52.  Some
> of the other probable typos are less obvious.
> 
> Essentially what I want to do is to make my own automobile kee reference
> manual, first in database form, then printed.  I want to create a
> database that contains all the information from all the manuals that I
> have.  Basically, each line from the manual in my hand will be
> identified in my database as having come from the 2007 manual... 

the 2007 manual? the 2007 issue of the trade book mentioned above?

>.. I will
> probably end up duplicating each line and correcting the info, and call
> the new line my own.  And when I print it out, I will print only *my*
> lines.
> 
> When entering the data, I don't want to have to type in 1184FD/H54 (the
> full description of the kee) each time and increase the chance of
> introducing typos (which is obviously how the makers of this manual are
> doing it).  And seeing as how the H50 is listed as the kee of choice in
> 30 different entries in Ford alone, I think that kees would be a good
> candidate for their own lookup table.
> 
> When it comes down to it, I want to have a table where I've already
> entered all the kees, another table with all the transponder info,

transponder info comes from another reference?
Is this uniquely determined by car, maybe?
  (make, model, year, [sub-series])

> another table with all the substitutes, another table with all the
> notes, another with car makers, another with car models, another with
> lock applications, and another with code series, all enterable with a
> combo box, one that will show possible matches based upon the first few
> letters I type, but allowing a new entry if it matches no others.

OK the UI is a separate (and significant) question but I like the
thought of thinking in advance how the database ought to support your
access requirements.

> 
> But the main table is where they are all connected.  The main table will
> have:
> an entry for the year (of the manual)
> a combo box for the brand of the manual (currently only 3)
> a combo box for the model (currently over 700)
> a combo box for the car maker (currently under 100)

You don't actually have combo boxes in the database, at least not in
relational databases. You're talking about the UI, I believe.

> an entry for the year from
> an entry for the year thru
> a combo box for the lock application (currently under 100)

lock application? meaning

> a combo box for the code series (currently about 100)

series is a disjoint classification of kees, maybe?

> a combo box for the kee of choice (currently ???)
> a combo box for substitutes (fewer than the kee of choice)
> a combo box for transponder info (under 100?)
> a combo box for the notes. (under 100?)
> 
> If the car model is filled in first, then most of the time the car maker
> will only have one choice, but could have as many as three (currently).
> 
> Most lines have zero substitutes, some have only one, but some have more
> than one.  Same thing goes for the transponder info and the notes.

0-or-more is easy to do in relational databases.

> 
> Most of the info in the manual is repetitious, but uniquely combined on
> each line for a different lock and kee application.  For example, the
> Ranger has 17 lines, each one unique from the others in some way.  In
> other words, each field has a small number of possible entries (other
> than car models and probably kees).  But no two records will be entirely
> the same.  There are approximately 2,000 records for each manual.  And
> most of the information that is possible in each of the fields will be
> identical from one manual to another.  I'm thinking that each field
> should have it's own table, except the years (because of how simple they
> are, like entering 4 digits should be easier that scrolling thru a list).
> 
> I don't think this is all that simple.  But then again, I've never
> embarked upon anything quite like it.
> 

Later..
..jim

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