On Fri, February 22, 2008 7:58 pm, Ralph Shumaker wrote: > James G. Sack (jim) wrote: >> I'm no perl-wizard but I have spent a few years writing perl code, and I >> would recommend something other than perl -- unless you already have a good reason to specifically use perl. Perl is famous for text handling, but other languages are nearly as good. Perl is famous for one-liners, but only after you get fairly proficient. There are certainly other pluses, but in each case, I find it hard to send beginners off chasing them. >> I would suggest python (my favorite) or maybe tcl. >> Hmmm, maybe lua? (Andy:?) >> ??? or maybe even pascal ??? >> ==> Hey Gus: does delphi fit in this context. >> I would also suggest skipping sed and awk (unless you want to see some of the ideas that led to perl). Both are good things for sysadmins to have in their toolbags, but I think for an ordinary mortal just doing occasional scripting, I would jump from shell to (say) python. >> Regards, >> ..jim > > And "for an ordinary mortal just doing [more than] occasional scripting"? > > I've never programmed anything with a gui interface, and that certainly has some appeal to me, just to be *able* to do it if nothing else. Because of that, Tcl-Tk has had some appeal to me. > > But other than BASIC, FoxBase, and a little Perl, I am fairly much unfamiliar with what would be a good way to go. I wouldn't mind getting to a level where I could code for pay. But I doubt that I could do that with BASIC or FoxBase. > >
Yeah, I started my programming life (after Pascal and asm in school) on dBase II, too. My first scripting language ;-) I would say this. Scripting, at least at first, is like anything else in Linux. We start out just to poke around, have a little fun, see what the other guys/gals are talking about. Who knows where it will lead. I've been glad to know a little perl so I could solve small text and control problems easily w/o asking for help. Just as someone with Carl's experience reaches for sed/awk/sh, I reach for perl. Once I got the idea of regular expressions (get the Owl book, Luke), perl became a joy. I started with tcl/tk for just the reason you cite, to see what it takes to write a GUI proggie. Even with that, it took a little more than I was interested in doing, so I explored the WYSISYG tcl/tk window makers. They're limited tools it turns out -- fine for slapping a few simple widgets together, but they hit the wall quickly. Nevertheless, examining the code they write made me more sophisticated, and I still use my fave (SpecTcl) to whip out quickies. I also appreciate being able to hack both perl and tcl. Sometimes it's as simple as setting some defaults in the code. But today I can do anything in tcl that I can do in perl, and often quicker and easier. Best of all, the code tends to be easier to read, support, and reuse. Finally, on making a buck: I started doing SW Comfiguration Management in '85 with DOS PVCS just to keep some code I was working on straight. Within 4 hours of the package arriving from the vendor, I had installed it and used it to find two elusive bugs that had been hiding from me for months. I was hooked. Now I make my living at SCM exclusively (turned out I was better at it than I was at coding). So ya' never know where something's leading. But the point was not that it would turn into a cash cow. The point was, it was (and still is) fun. And BTW, being able to script is central to my value as a senior SCM guy (turns out all the SCM tools have trigger points, and triggers should ALWAYS be scripted -- NEVER compiled ... fell free to ask why some day). If you'd like some pointers to tcl/tk URLs or the good texts, ask away. I've given up trying to promote it, but am always happy to share. Its syntax is absurdly simple, and I keep being amazed at its power and expressiveness.[0] Oh, and I'm kind of a middle level dabbler, but we have a high level tcl/tk developer on the list in Darren New. The whole tcl community has always been generous to me with their time and advice (ridicule free, which is refreshing), and Darren is no exception. [0] Although I wasn't there for it, I have learned that there was a historic perl vs tcl war back in the dark ages, mostly, sad to say, pursued by rabid perl advocates who apparently served a jealous god who brooked no other gods before him. Anyway, the language still suffers in the Mindspace from the rap of being old, slow, unsupported, and limited. Indeed, Larry Wall made a recent statement repeating those false villifications. In fact, tcl has just gone through a new major release (OOP was moved to the core). In tests it is marginally faster than perl (although the difference shouldn't motivate any mass migration ... it's very minor). And it's the most extensible scripting language I've ever seen, being specifically designed to make writing new commands in C/C++ easy. -- Lan Barnes SCM Analyst Linux Guy Tcl/Tk Enthusiast Biodiesel Brewer -- [email protected] http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-lpsg
