Has anyone checked out Motorav.com? It looks to me like they have done what should be done with regard to the basic VW type 1 engine. According to their web site, the have done finite element analysis on it and have made new molds for the case, beefing up certain areas where indicated and manufacturing new jugs and heads. Work on the heads and cylinders have been significant, increasing the size and number of cooling fins, etc. Looks like the heads have the ports on the bottom instead of the top. Their 2.4 L runs 85hp @ 2900. I don't know what the prices are like though...
Phill Hill Collinsville, IL On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Gary Hinkle via KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> wrote: > > > First time was a night run (3am) delivering parts, over mountains, in the > winter. The oil congealed in the oil cooler. Outside temp was below -40 > deg. Very high oil temp, very low pressure. It was so cold outside, could > not heat cabin. Had frost on inside from my breath. Was close to having to > shut down an engine. 2 other pilots I know, had the same thing happen that > same night. Freaky cold.2nd time, I had an oil seal blow. Oil all over the > plane. Pulled engine to idle and got down fast ( I was in a single engine > plane). Airport was 10 miles in front of me when it happened.Also lost an > engine on takeoff due to carb ice. Just hasn't been my time to die I > guess.The point I have been trying to make about the heads and oil topic > was. We are pushing the engine beyond what was designed to do. It has been > taken as far as it can go without a complete redesign. That would mean a > new engine never on the market. Everything you do in one place, affects > something else. And that "something else" is what will kill you. > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Brian C Wagner via KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Date: 05/01/2016 11:32 (GMT-05:00) > To: KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Cc: Brian C Wagner <brianw at siu.edu> > Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling > > There isn't much surface area on a sump, compared to the volume of oil it > contains. Also, located on the bottom of the engine, the air flow is > questionable. Sure, you lose a little heat with those piddly fins on there, > but it's not its prime function. An oil cooler system with proper air flow > is the only way you'll get rid of most oil heat in an air-cooled engine. > > I'm not advocating a higher-volume oil pump. At least, not without > addressing the oil system as a whole. Just dropping one in and expecting it > will somehow "help" is just asking for trouble. > > If you start losing oil out of an engine, it isn't going to make a > difference what volume the oil pump is. When you lose oil *pressure*, it's > just a matter of (not much) time before the engine seizes. Why did you lose > engines twice? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Gary Hinkle <Gary19521 at verizon.net> > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 9:43 PM > To: KRnet > Cc: Brian C Wagner > Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling > > The sump is not the worst place to shed heat. Do the math and look at how > many square inchs of surface there is. Why do you think there are fins on > the sump? Not only that, the heat is wicked around the entire crank case. > This is why the top of the case gets hot. The oil cools the crank, rods, > pistons, valves, and so on. The heads aren't the only path for heat > transfer. > And yes, I use a cooler. Look up the amount of Btus that a cooler can shed > per Sq in. You may be surprised how limited it is. I'm not trying to be a > pain. But if someone is going to all the work to pump a large volume of oil > into the heads, for which it was never designed to handle, they most likely > could be landing when they don't want to due to engine failure. Have you > ever flown an airplane with oil comming out of the engine at a high rate. I > have, and you will have one heck of a pucker factor. > And I have lost engines in flight twice. > Pumping extra oil into the heads would be best be done in a test cell for > many hours of running to get it right. If at all. > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Brian C Wagner via KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Date: 04/30/2016 09:29 (GMT-05:00) > To: KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Cc: Brian C Wagner <brianw at siu.edu> > Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling > > I'm sorry, but this is wrong. The sump is the worst place for cooling to > happen. Heat is radiated away only at that relatively small amount of > surface area, per volume of oil. > I'm not familiar with VW aircraft installations. Are you using an oil > cooler of any type? A car installation includes the integral cooler that > air is forced through. It is there, and throughout the engine's radiating > surface, where heat is exchanged to the air. > > ________________________________________ > From: KRnet <krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org> on behalf of Gary Hinkle via > KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:52 PM > To: KRnet > Cc: Gary Hinkle > Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling > > While everyone is toying with extra oil to cool the heads. Don't forget, > you would pull more oil from the sump. Which would leave less to be cooled. > Leading to hotter oil, hotter heads.This is a bad idea. Period! The > engineering to fugure out the amount of oil needed in sump, out put of > pump, thermal shed, and so on, is way beyond anything worth doing for the > amount of return.Power = temperature. This little engine is pretty much > putting out all it can, and still remain reliable. NASCAR doesn't use > Detroit engines from production cars. They are specially designed just for > that class car and special usage.I don't want to seem like a poop. It's > just how it is.Gary Hinkle. Corp, Cargo pilot, and seems like forever A&P. > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Chris Prata via KRnet <krnet at list.krnet.org> > Date: 04/27/2016 02:40 (GMT-05:00) > To: krnet at list.krnet.org > Cc: Chris Prata <chrisprata at live.com> > Subject: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling > > thats an interesting angle. your oil post also reminded me I was going to > ask about *additional* oil to cool the heads, as in a high vol oil pump, > and an oil line to each head spraying oil on the hottest area (between the > valves?). > would that almost make them "liquid cooled heads"? > > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:28:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads > From: lrffrench at gmail.com > To: krnet at list.krnet.org > CC: chrisprata at live.com > > > > Hi KR league, of all the discussions that are so important about > controlling heat, I am surprised that so little discussion of oil happens. > This is a big decision. My research for my 1835 vw and oil has led me to > Quaker State DEFY. I am running the 10w30 and the API-SL class. This is a > semi- synthetic with boosted zinc for anti-friction. In aircraft we can't > use a full synthetic because lead in av-gas will destroy the anti-friction > adds in the pure synthetics. Even if we plan to use mogas primarily, there > may be the need to use av-gas all of which have high lead. The molecule > size in synthetics, even the blends, is smaller and is known to run cooler. > Note: Quaker State DEFY is in almost identical containers with API-SN > class oil. (Strange). SN doesn't have the boosted Zinc. You have to read > the small print to get API-SL. The SN class has been made for the auto > engines with catalytic converters because the high zinc has been known to > ruin the catalytic converters. Since aviation > does use them (yet), we can benefit from the zinc friction reduction. Hope > this isn't noise on many of the great signals I read everyday from you > pros.Cheers,Rene Ffrench N44774. Austin, Texas > > > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
