Jim, I agree with you on the need to support services spanning multiple "domains".
If that is the focus of the group, then of course, distributed control plane makes sense. Somesh > -----Original Message----- > From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:56 PM > To: Somesh Gupta; Yakov Rekhter > Cc: Lucy yong; Aldrin Isaac; Kireeti Kompella; [email protected]; > L3VPN; [email protected]; Xuxiaohu; Luyuan Fang (lufang) > Subject: RE: [nvo3] The possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs ... > for > l3vpn > > Somesh, > > IMO one of the bigger use cases is "stitching" between data center > and WAN and data center 1 and data center 2 instances of a given VPN. > These two CUGs are not orthogonal, this is where it is important to define > the services that will utilize the technology. > > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Somesh Gupta [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:38 PM > To: Yakov Rekhter > Cc: Lucy yong; Aldrin Isaac; Kireeti Kompella; [email protected]; > L3VPN; [email protected]; Xuxiaohu; Luyuan Fang (lufang); UTTARO, JAMES > Subject: RE: [nvo3] The possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs ... > for > l3vpn > > Yaakov, > > I thought we were discussing virtual overlay networks (not VPNs) as related > to virtualized data centers (maybe I assumed incorrectly). > > From whatever I see from the vendors of these products, they seem to be > shipping/moving towards centralized control plane. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:29 PM > > To: Somesh Gupta > > Cc: Lucy yong; Aldrin Isaac; Kireeti Kompella; [email protected]; > > L3VPN; Yakov Rekhter; [email protected]; Xuxiaohu; Luyuan Fang (lufang); > > UTTARO, JAMES > > Subject: Re: [nvo3] The possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs ... > > for > > l3vpn > > > > Somesh, > > > > > A centralized architecture for a single domain is the way things > > > will be in practice (already are). > > > > We can all speculate about how "the things will be in practice". > > > > However, in terms of how things "already are", 2547 VPNs, which are > widely > > deployed today, are *not* based on "a centralized architecture". > > > > Yakov. > > > > > One way or the other, non-virtualized > > > network devices (physical switches etc) will have to fit into that > > > model. > > > > > > Now we can debate the definition of a domain is :) It may > > > be defined by the scope of a centralized control plane? > > > > > > Somesh > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > > Of Luc= > > > y yong > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:15 AM > > > To: Aldrin Isaac; Kireeti Kompella > > > Cc: [email protected]; L3VPN; Yakov Rekhter; [email protected]; > > Xuxiaohu;= > > > Luyuan Fang (lufang); UTTARO, JAMES > > > Subject: Re: [nvo3] The possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs > > > ...= > > > for l3vpn > > > > > > For distributed based architecture, the local context ID has a lot of > > > benef= > > > its. For centralized (or SDN) architecture, will the global context ID > > > have= > > > advance? Another way to ask this is: is distributed architecture better > > > t= > > > han centralized architecture for VPN or virtual network overlay? > > > > > > Lucy > > > > > > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > [mailto:nvo3-boun= > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Aldrin Isaac > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:00 AM > > > To: Kireeti Kompella > > > Cc: Luyuan Fang (lufang); L3VPN; Yakov Rekhter; > > [email protected]<mailto:nvo3@i= > > > etf.org>; Xuxiaohu; > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>= > > > ; UTTARO, JAMES > > > Subject: Re: [nvo3] The possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs > > > ...= > > > for l3vpn > > > > > > +1. > > > > > > Network operators lose flexibility with Global VNIDs. Virtual topology > will= > > > be fine tuned on top of VNIDs by squeezing a square peg (ACLs) into a > > roun= > > > d hole (where it's otherwise not needed). I think local context IDs will > > > m= > > > ake a come back once we regain our sanity. :). > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2013, Kireeti Kompella wrote: > > > Hi Xuxiaohu, > > > > > > Sorry for the previous empty email. > > > > > > On Jul 23, 2013, at 4:51, Xuxiaohu <[email protected]<javascript:;>> > > wrot= > > > e: > > > > > > > The reason that I started this discussion is to make sure whether the > Vir= > > > tual Network Context Identification contained in the data packet is > REALLY > > = > > > required to be globally unique in some cases. > > > > > > No. There's nothing useful that I know that one can do with global IDs in > t= > > > he data plane that one cannot do with local IDs, and local IDs are easier > > > t= > > > o allocate and manage. So, I'd be going the other way and advocate > locally > > = > > > significant VNIDs for VXLAN and NVGRE, not global IDs for VPNs. (And I > do) > > > > > > Kireeti > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nvo3 mailing list > > > [email protected]<javascript:;> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > > > > > -- > > > _000_BB8D8AEC7DBA1F41810DCB5D38AF56ABA3B78814C8HQ1EXCH02corp_ > > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" > > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= > > > osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft- > > com:office:word" = > > > xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; > > xmlns=3D"http:= > > > //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP- > EQUIV=3D"Content- > > Type" CONTENT= > > > =3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator > > content=3D"Micros= > > > oft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!-- > > > /* Font Definitions */ > > > @font-face > > > {font-family:Wingdings; > > > panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} > > > @font-face > > > {font-family:Wingdings; > > > panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} > > > @font-face > > > {font-family:Calibri; > > > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > > > @font-face > > > {font-family:Tahoma; > > > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > > > /* Style Definitions */ > > > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > > > {margin:0in; > > > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > > > font-size:12.0pt; > > > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} > > > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > > > {mso-style-priority:99; > > > color:blue; > > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > > > {mso-style-priority:99; > > > color:purple; > > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate > > > {mso-style-priority:99; > > > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; > > > margin:0in; > > > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > > > font-size:8.0pt; > > > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > > > span.EmailStyle17 > > > {mso-style-type:personal; > > > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > > > color:#1F497D;} > > > span.BalloonTextChar > > > {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; > > > mso-style-priority:99; > > > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; > > > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > > > span.EmailStyle20 > > > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > > > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > > > color:#1F497D;} > > > .MsoChpDefault > > > {mso-style-type:export-only; > > > font-size:10.0pt;} > > > @page WordSection1 > > > {size:8.5in 11.0in; > > > margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > > > div.WordSection1 > > > {page:WordSection1;} > > > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> > > > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > > > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > > > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US > > link=3Dblue vli= > > > nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p > class=3DMsoNormal><span > > style=3D'f= > > > ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A > central= > > > ized architecture for a single domain is the way > > things<o:p></o:p></span></= > > > p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font- > > family:"Calibri= > > > ","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>will be in practice (already are). One way > or= > > > the other, non-virtualized<o:p></o:p></span></p><p > > class=3DMsoNormal><span= > > > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > serif";color:#1F497D= > > > '>network devices (physical switches etc) will have to fit into > that<o:p></= > > > o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font- > > size:11.0pt;font-fa= > > > mily:"Calibri","sans- > > serif";color:#1F497D'>model.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c= > > > lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font- > > family:"Calibri","san= > > > s-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p > > class=3DMsoNormal><s= > > > pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > serif";color:#1F4= > > > 97D'>Now we can debate the definition of a domain is </span><span > > style=3D'= > > > font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span > > style= > > > =3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> > > > It = > > > may<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span > > style=3D'font-size:11.0= > > > pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>be defined by the > > scop= > > > e of a centralized control plane?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p > > class=3DMsoNormal= > > > ><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > serif";color:#= > > > 1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span > > style=3D'fon= > > > t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > > serif";color:#1F497D'>Somesh<o:p>= > > > </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font- > > size:11.0pt;font-= > > > family:"Calibri","sans- > > serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><d= > > > iv style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in > 4.= > > > 0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF > > 1.0pt;padding:= > > > 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font- > > size:10.0pt;= > > > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span > > style=3D'font-size= > > > :10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email protected] > > [mailto:n= > > > [email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lucy > yong<br><b>Sent:</b> > > Tuesday= > > > , July 23, 2013 8:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aldrin Isaac; Kireeti > > Kompella<br><b>= > > > Cc:</b> [email protected]; L3VPN; Yakov Rekhter; > > [email protected]; Xuxia= > > > ohu; Luyuan Fang (lufang); UTTARO, JAMES<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: > > [nvo3] The = > > > possibility of using global MPLS labels as VNIs ... for > l3vpn<o:p></o:p></s= > > > pan></p></div></div><p > > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMs= > > > oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > > serif";= > > > color:#1F497D'>For distributed based architecture, the local context ID > > has= > > > a lot of benefits. For centralized (or SDN) architecture, will the > > > global = > > > context ID have advance? Another way to ask this is: is distributed > > a= > > > rchitecture better than centralized architecture for VPN or virtual > network= > > > overlay?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span > > style=3D'font-siz= > > > e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans- > > serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p= > > > ></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font- > > size:11.0pt;font-famil= > > > y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Lucy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p > > class= > > > =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font- > > family:"Calibri","sans-se= > > > rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div > > style=3D'border:none;b= > > > order-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div > style=3D'b= > > > order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p > > cla= > > > ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > > family:"Tahoma","san= > > > s-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > > family:"Taho= > > > ma","sans-serif"'> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>nvo3- > > bounces@ie= > > > tf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>mailto:nvo3- > > bounces@ie= > > > tf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aldrin Isaac<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, > > July = > > > 23, 2013 8:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kireeti Kompella<br><b>Cc:</b> > Luyuan > > Fang (= > > > lufang); L3VPN; Yakov Rekhter; <a > > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > > > rg</a>; Xuxiaohu; <a > > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>thomas.morin@o= > > > range.com</a>; UTTARO, JAMES<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [nvo3] The > > possibility = > > > of using global MPLS labels as VNIs ... for > > l3vpn<o:p></o:p></span></p></di= > > > v></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p > > class=3DMsoNormal>+1.<= > > > o:p></o:p></p><div><p > > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > > > class=3DMsoNormal>Network operators lose flexibility with Global > > VNIDs= > > > . Virtual topology will be fine tuned on top of VNIDs > > by&nbs= > > > p;squeezing a square peg (ACLs) into a round hole (where it's otherwise > > not= > > > needed). I think local context IDs will make a come back > once > > w= > > > e regain our sanity. :).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p > > class=3DMso= > > > Normal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On > > Tuesday, July 23, = > > > 2013, Kireeti Kompella wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p > class=3DMsoNormal>Hi > > Xuxiaoh= > > > u,<br><br>Sorry for the previous empty email.<br><br>On Jul 23, 2013, > at > > 4:= > > > 51, Xuxiaohu <<a > href=3D"javascript:;">[email protected]</a>> > > wrote= > > > :<br><br>> The reason that I started this discussion is to make sure > > whe= > > > ther the Virtual Network Context Identification contained in the data > > packe= > > > t is REALLY required to be globally unique in some cases.<br><br>No. > > There'= > > > s nothing useful that I know that one can do with global IDs in the data > > > pl= > > > ane that one cannot do with local IDs, and local IDs are easier to > > > allocate= > > > and manage. So, I'd be going the other way and advocate locally > significan= > > > t VNIDs for VXLAN and NVGRE, not global IDs for VPNs. (And I > > do)<br><br>Kir= > > > > > > eeti<br>_______________________________________________<br>n > > vo3 mailing lis= > > > t<br><a href=3D"javascript:;">[email protected]</a><br><a > > href=3D"https://www.i= > > > etf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3" > > target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailm= > > > > > > an/listinfo/nvo3</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></bo > > dy></h= > > > tml>= > > > > > > -- > > > _000_BB8D8AEC7DBA1F41810DCB5D38AF56ABA3B78814C8HQ1EXCH02corp_- > > - > > >
