G'day, Eddy here.
 
Patty mentioned:-
<<<< we are finding that when we take him out, he is holding it, waiting to 
come back in, and then immediately pees and/or poops on the hardwood floor.  So 
instead him learning to hold it till he is out, he is holding it till he's in 
>>>>
 
 
Sounds like your Pooch has already associated and been quite conditioned to 
doing their buisness on hard floors, and hard floors can also be found outside 
in dog kennels. Anyway, this old general post of mine maybe of help but realise 
in your case it maybe difficult and take time for your Pooch to UNassociate or 
UNlearn
 
Some of my thoughts on toileting and maybe others might like to post some 
thoughts as any information about toileting maybe helpful to those who might 
have problems. Also people do have different thoughts on what is a problem, say 
if a young puppy toilets on the carpet a few times a week to some that is a 
real problem but to some others it is not as it involves a "young puppy who is 
learning". Also some have different thoughts on learning where some might say 
that if a young puppy starts toileting on the carpet even if for a few times 
then the puppy has already started to associate the carpet as a toileting area, 
and if this continues any more then this association is reinforced more which 
could make it difficult to UNassociate or UNlearn.
 
Well my first thought of which could vary with breed or with individuals within 
a breed, but by about 4 to 5 weeks of age pups are already standing and moving 
about, and at this age they are moving away from where they are sleeping and 
playing to do their eliminating business, and in doing so they can "hold" 
themselves for that short time till they have moved away, and this "holding 
time" gradually extends as they age consequently they could move further whilst 
"holding it". Also by this age pups have already begun developing their problem 
solving abilities, this even regarding eliminations.
 
By extending on what mother nature already provided, pups could start toilet 
training at 4 to 5 weeks of age. So when the pups are observed moving away to 
eliminate, after waking up, after meals etc., simply pick them up and take them 
onto the grass outside, this so that they can start the association of grass 
under their feet whilst eliminating, also by moving them from the pen area they 
also start associating the route and distance to the grass area.
 
Using this and by 8 weeks of age, the puppy pen area could be dry through the 
night, and the pups on waking are scratching at the pen wanting to go outside 
to do it on the grass, and just open the pen and watch them charge out and do 
it on the grass.  But then during this time forget trying to have yourself 
those extra few minutes sleeping in.
 
When toilet training you must watch your puppy very closely ALL the time as the 
idea is that you catch them before they do their business and where that 
business can be done outside.  If you cannot watch your puppy very closely ALL 
the time, then put your puppy in a crate or pen till you can, BUT even when in 
the crate or pen you still must offer heaps of opportunities to toilet outside. 
If your puppy happens to do something inside, don't scold them, don't even look 
at them and just quietly clean up the mess, and note the following. 
 
The moment you spot your puppy getting ready to do a business immediately take 
them outside, they do give signs so carefully watch them for those signs, this 
even if they try to sneak away from you consider that this could be a sign. 
Also take your puppy outside straight after eating, straight after waking from 
sleeping, after drinking, and at regular intervals, note the times when they do 
their business as you might see a regular pattern and this will help you in the 
future so you know when they need to be outside. Take your puppy to the same 
spot each time so familiar sights and smells remind them what they are supposed 
to be doing in that area as toileting.  When you are outside, play with your 
puppy AFTER they have toileted, not before, as the reward of the game might 
help them to get on with their toileting so the play games can begin. When they 
do their business outside and as your with them, you can then give them heaps 
of praise and even treats, this will certainly help in the training process. 
Also take them for a walk on-lead outside and this will help to stimulate their 
body to do toileting. Stay outside till your sure they have had plenty of time 
to toilet, and after taking your puppy back inside still keep a very close eye 
on them and if you cannot even if for a minute then put your puppy in a pen or 
crate till you can watch them closely.
 
Is there a toileting problem through the night or very early in the morning, 
consider that late meals and big drinks late in the evening plus also humans 
wanting to sleep in seems to be the main reasons why those new to puppies have 
toileting problems.
 
Also, during those cold wet wintry days to assist toilet training then, my wife 
and I set-up a large tarpaulin on some tent poles near the fence, this provided 
a dry grass area and protection from the cold wind, and we even had a light for 
night use, there my wife and I could easily stay with the puppies when they did 
their businesses.  Every now and then for health reasons we would move that 
sheltered area a bit further along the fence, and this was very easy to do with 
both my wife and I doing it. Also during Summer in the heat of the day if there 
is no shade, well something like this could provide a nice comfortable area to 
stay till puppies did their businesses.
 
Also some breeders do like to be contacted regarding anything for the dog's 
entire life, even if it's a toileting problems, and some breeders particularly 
who raise puppies inside their home do start toilet training early as they 
don't want incidents like wet carpets or smelly homes, and where the new puppy 
owner just continues doing what the breeder has already started and well into 
their training by 8 weeks of age.
 
Eddy Safianski
Sale Victoria. Australia
Email:- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website:-
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~safcav/
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