Thank you MF-Warburg What I ndid was to try to understahnd nthe concerns and objections of those opposed to allowing ancient languages, and to write a proposal that would exclude problematic languages, eg those without modern formations, without sufficient competent writers, or those without a significant audience.
The “compromise proposal” includes several suggestions from people who objected to ancient languages being considered on principlel, so I believe ithe RFC is complete and sable. While there is still some discussion it is tagential to the proposal draft itself. Thus it is in a position for LangCom to take a look at the text of the proposal and as a Committe either accept or reject it, in part or whole, and either modify the language policy, or not. Then the RFC can be closed. > On 7 Sep 2021, at 11:43, MF-Warburg <[email protected]> wrote: > > News from this RFC. The ultra-long discussion was archived by this user in > favour of his new proposal, which already generated much text again. > > Am Di., 7. Sept. 2021 um 12:41 Uhr schrieb Jim Killock <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>: > Dear LangCom, > > I am a sometime contributor to Latin Wikipedia, Latin Wikisource, and Latin > Wikibooks. I feel that my time is well spent doing this, and belong to a > community of people who write and use spoken Latin, although my own Latin is > still intermediate at this point. However, I can appreciate that Latin takes > up a large part of many people’s lives, and thus I suspect this is true for > some other ancient languages, which are, in the end, still employed and > varifiably so. Thus I am sympathetic to the claims made that some other > ancient languages may also have communities in a similar position. > > You may have seen that some users have asked for the policy that makes an > auto0matic refusal for ‘ancient and historic languages’ to be revisited > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages#Discussion>. > > After checking through the rules and procedures, it seems this is something > you as a committee need to decide, rather than being a matter of general > debate, so I am emailing you to ask you to consider revising the policy, in a > manner which allows a little more flexibility for languages which are > historic, learnt, but in use. > > I think there is some need to do this, as can be seen from your archives, > which show that it is hard to achi9eve a consistent approach while > constructed alnguages with a body of current usage are allowed, but an > ancient language with similar levels of fluent usage, is not allowed. This I > note has been a matter of discussion relating to Ancient Greek, for which a > discussion is still open. > > I drafted a proposal that would try to create consistency between the > constructed and ancient language situation, while recognising that most > historic languages should not normally qualify for inclusion. Nevertheless, > in some important exceptions, where there is a credibly large enough number > of language users, with sufficient skill, and attestable external usage of > that language,, these languages could be allowed without opening the > floodgates, with a well-crated policy. > > I would also like the committee to note that I would be happy to help frame > this policy in a sensible way, if that is of interest. > > Thank you for your time, > > Jim > > > Definition of ancient or historic language[edit > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages&action=edit§ion=12>] > For Wikimedia projects' purposes, an ancient or historic language is one which > Was used historically and has an extant corpus of works; > Is typically acquired by formal learning; > Is typically fixed in form, eg by grammar rules developed and documented > while the language was in common usage; > May or may not not be used in modern linguistic domains, such as: trade; > education; academic discourse; music; poetry; religious discourse; etc. > Qualification of an ancient or historic language for a Wiki project[edit > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages&action=edit§ion=13>] > The same basic eligibility criteria should apply in a similar but somewhat > stricter manner than artificial languages, recognising that acquisition is > likely to be harder than is typical for constructed languages, but also that > acquisition may be more common and resources more developed; and also that > practical usage is likely to be lower than for many contemporary > natively-acquired languages. > Therefore I propose that: > Wikis are allowed in ancient or historical languages despite having no native > speakers; although these should be on a wiki for the most widely used form of > the language, when possible; > There must be evidence of a significant potential readership and evidence of > a significant body of competent potential contributors; for instance at least > thousands of people trained in writing the language; > There should be a significant historical corpus and usage for modern authors > to draw upon, for instance, a large volume of extant texts or a large volume > of recordings, sufficient to understand the idiom as well as the grammar of > the language; whether generated as an auxiliary language, domain specific > language or a native language; > The language must have a reasonable degree of contemporary usage as > determined by discussion. (Some recognition criteria include, but are not > limited to: independently proved number of speakers or writers, use as an > auxiliary or domain-specific language outside of online communities created > solely for the purpose, usage outside of Wikimedia, publication of works in > the language for general sale, publication of academic papers in the > language, availability of courses or training which aim at fluent > compositional or oral usage.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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