Hoi,
The arguments inherent in the policy are not affected by the "fear
mongering" by some. At the same time in the later suggestions there is
nothing new.
>From my perspective there is no reason to revisit the criteria for a new
Wikipedia.
Thanks,
GerardM
On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 02:00, Phake Nick <[email protected]> wrote:
> The RFC in past have suffered from fear-mongering by some users on
> multiple Wikiprojects both internally on sites like Chinese Wikipedia and
> Chinese Wikisource and then also via some other channels, describing the
> RFC as a conspiracy to enable the creation of a Literal Chinese Wikisource
> and to tear apart Chinese Wikimedian communities, despite later
> clarification that the RFC isn't intended to alter the circumstances around
> Wikisource since the current language policy already allow creation of
> Wikisource in ancient languages, yet such misunderstanding generated a lot
> of unnecessary debate inside the page.
>
> 在 2021年9月7日週二 18:44，MF-Warburg <[email protected]> 寫道：
>
>> News from this RFC. The ultra-long discussion was archived by this user
>> in favour of his new proposal, which already generated much text again.
>>
>> Am Di., 7. Sept. 2021 um 12:41 Uhr schrieb Jim Killock <
>> [email protected]>:
>>
>>> Dear LangCom,
>>>
>>> I am a sometime contributor to Latin Wikipedia, Latin Wikisource, and
>>> Latin Wikibooks. I feel that my time is well spent doing this, and belong
>>> to a community of people who write and use spoken Latin, although my own
>>> Latin is still intermediate at this point. However, I can appreciate that
>>> Latin takes up a large part of many people’s lives, and thus I suspect this
>>> is true for some other ancient languages, which are, in the end, still
>>> employed and varifiably so. Thus I am sympathetic to the claims made that
>>> some other ancient languages may also have communities in a similar
>>> position.
>>>
>>> You may have seen that some users have asked for the policy that makes
>>> an auto0matic refusal for ‘ancient and historic languages’ to be
>>> revisited
>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages#Discussion>
>>> .
>>>
>>> After checking through the rules and procedures, it seems this is
>>> something you as a committee need to decide, rather than being a matter of
>>> general debate, so I am emailing you to ask you to consider revising the
>>> policy, in a manner which allows a little more flexibility for languages
>>> which are *historic, learnt, but in use*.
>>>
>>> I think there is some need to do this, as can be seen from your
>>> archives, which show that it is hard to achi9eve a consistent approach
>>> while constructed alnguages with a body of current usage are allowed, but
>>> an ancient language with similar levels of fluent usage, is not allowed.
>>> This I note has been a matter of discussion relating to Ancient Greek, for
>>> which a discussion is still open.
>>>
>>> I drafted a proposal that would try to create consistency between the
>>> constructed and ancient language situation, while recognising that most
>>> historic languages should not normally qualify for inclusion. Nevertheless,
>>> in some important exceptions, where there is a *credibly large enough
>>> number of language users, with sufficient skill, and attestable external
>>> usage of that language,*, these languages could be allowed without
>>> opening the floodgates, with a well-crated policy.
>>>
>>> I would also like the committee to note that I would be happy to help
>>> frame this policy in a sensible way, if that is of interest.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your time,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> Definition of *ancient or historic language*[edit
>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages&action=edit§ion=12>
>>> ]
>>>
>>> 1. For Wikimedia projects' purposes, an *ancient or historic
>>> language* is one which
>>> 1. Was used historically and has an extant corpus of works;
>>> 2. Is typically acquired by formal learning;
>>> 3. Is typically fixed in form, eg by grammar rules developed and
>>> documented while the language was in common usage;
>>> 4. May or may not not be used in modern linguistic domains, such
>>> as: trade; education; academic discourse; music; poetry; religious
>>> discourse; etc.
>>>
>>> Qualification of an *ancient or historic language* for a Wiki project[
>>> edit
>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages&action=edit§ion=13>
>>> ]
>>> The same basic eligibility criteria should apply in a similar but
>>> somewhat stricter manner than artificial languages, recognising that
>>> acquisition is likely to be harder than is typical for constructed
>>> languages, but also that acquisition *may* be more common and resources
>>> more developed; and also that practical usage is likely to be *lower* than
>>> for many contemporary natively-acquired languages.
>>> Therefore I propose that:
>>>
>>> 1. *Wikis* are allowed in ancient or historical languages despite
>>> having no native speakers; although these should be on a wiki for the
>>> most
>>> widely used form of the language, when possible;
>>> 2. There must be evidence of a significant potential readership and
>>> evidence of a significant body of competent potential contributors; for
>>> instance at least thousands of people trained in writing the language;
>>> 3. There should be a significant historical corpus *and usage for
>>> modern authors to draw upon, for instance, a large volume of extant texts
>>> or a large volume of recordings, sufficient to understand the idiom as
>>> well
>>> as the grammar of the language*; whether generated as an auxiliary
>>> language, domain specific language or a native language;
>>> 4. The language must have a reasonable degree of contemporary usage
>>> as determined by discussion. (Some recognition criteria include, but are
>>> not limited to: independently proved number of speakers or writers, use
>>> as
>>> an auxiliary or domain-specific language outside of online communities
>>> created solely for the purpose, usage outside of Wikimedia, publication
>>> of
>>> works in the language for general sale, publication of academic papers in
>>> the language, availability of courses or training which aim at fluent
>>> compositional or oral usage.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>>
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