I think it's unfortunate that you damn the OpenLaszlo team because of inaction on the part of Laszlo, Inc. Yes the team are (mostly) paid for by Laszlo, Inc., but I hope you would judge the OpenLaszlo team on our own merits. I feel Inc gives us a fair amount of latitude to cooperate with the community and that we are fairly responsive (given that we do have to give highest priority to our paymasters).
The OL team have a lot of interest in mobile development, which I hope has been evidenced by our response to your effort. I understand your concerns about Inc. But what's open about OL is going to stay open — it's in the license. I see no reason for the community to not make the most out of the support that Inc does give to the open project, like the hosting of mailing lists and source repository and builds. On Jun 26, 2010, at 7:02, Raju Bitter <[email protected]> wrote: > [cc-ing laszlo-dev] > > I've thought about that as well, but I think that for people who are > interested in developing mobile applications with OpenLaszlo, they > shouldn't be confronted with the whole technical discussions around > OpenLaszlo internals. > > Of course you could say that people can still use the laszlo-user > mailing list, but my experience is that mobile developers have a whole > range of questions around OS, devices, integration, etc. which is not > relevant to the normal RIA developers. It could even confuse beginners > seeing many entries where people report that OpenLaszlo isn't working > on this or that device. > > Why haven't I talked to the OpenLaszlo team first to create a mailing > list? Because there has been - as it appeared to me - no interest from > the Laszlo technical management team to discuss a possible extension > of OpenLaszlo to mobile devices. With David Temkin as the CTO at > Laszlo, Jim Grandy as the OpenLaszlo director there was a lot of > communication between the Laszlo technical management and the > OpenLaszlo community. I can't even remember any announcement by anyone > at Laszlo with at least director level regarding the future of > OpenLaszlo, a project roadmap, the IDE project, future runtimes, > mobile runtimes in the past two years. Yes, maybe you promise the CEO > of some company you do business with to come up with a mobile runtime > for Webtop, but we - the community - don't see anything happening! > > As a result, I don't have any motivation to contribute to OpenLaszlo > under the umbrella of Laszlo, if there's an attitude of: "Just add > value to the OpenLaszlo open source project, and we'll make sure that > it helps US make more money. And in case you wonder what's going to > happen with the platform in the future, we don't care to tell you." > There's some truth in not communicating, the truth is: "We don't care > about you." > > I remember a discussion with the SugarCRM CTO, very impressive person. > He said: "The key to the success of SugarCRM is the enormously active > SugarCRM community all around the world". > And now check this page:http://www.sugarcrm.com/crm/partners/sugarcrm- > partners.html > SugarCRM has 160 partners in the US, and 90 outside the US. > Compare that withhttp://www.laszlosystems.com/partners/ > > Sugar has been open source for 5 years now:http://www.sugarforge.org/ > content/5years/ > Remember when I came up with the idea of a "5 years of OpenLaszlo > party". You all know what happened, nothing! > > Currently it sometimes feels like OpenLaszlo is open source only, > because it has been open sourced a long time ago, and the company > can't make the step back to making it a closed source product. I fear > that any community work on mobile components, touch enabled > components, mobile runtimes could result in the creation of a closed > source, commercial mobile runtime by Laszlo which will be partially > based on work by the community. > > My current plan is to host all the information which everyone > contributing to Mobile OpenLaszlo - including the discussion list - at > mobileopenlaszlo.org. The website should be a platform for OpenLaszlo > contributors and committers around the world, done by the community > for the community. Give me a few good reasons why I shouldn't do that, > and I'm open to a discussion here. > > Raju > > On Jun 25, 5:40 pm, P T Withington <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I think it would be fine to use laszlo-dev for this discussion. Or we can >> create a new mailing list if people object. > >> On Jun 25, 2010, at 10:10, Raju Bitter >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> And here some more detailed information: >>> http://gigaom.com/2010/03/29/china-now-blocking-google-mobile-services/ > >>> Same seems to happening for Iran: >>> http://www.rottengods.com/2010/04/iran-blocked-google-groups.html > >>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Raju Bitter >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Yes, I'm pretty surprised myself. I never thought that they'd extend >>>> the blocking of Google to the Google Groups. Here's an old discussion >>>> from 2007 where people complain about it as well: >>>> http://markmail.org/message/gevc3ckpio3p6jcc#query:china%20google%20g... > >>>> | All forums of Google Groups are being blocked in China. So, even I >>>> | want to access to the internal forums set up for discussion between >>>> | colleagues, I cannot. >>>> | >>>> | Therefore, I need now to warn all colleagues outside China not to use >>>> | Google Groups. >>>> | >>>> | if it goes on, I am afraid some other Google App such as Google Doc, >>>> | which does allow people to shares thoughts publicly and with >>>> | authorized access, will be blocked as well. >>>> | >>>> | Google must do something to eliminate this great hindrance for users. >>>> | Or it should warn people for such potential drawback before people >>>> | toil to set up something. > >>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Henry Minsky <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Wow, that's an unfortunate situation , do they forbid it in China to keep >>>>> people from >>>>> talking to each other about politics? > >>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Raju Bitter >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> As I just learned from the OpenLaszlo forums >>>>>> (http://forum.openlaszlo.org/showpost.php?p=46470&postcount=17), the >>>>>> Google Group is not accessible out of China. I will set up a new >>>>>> mailing list which can be reached out of China as well. > >>>>>> - Raju > >>>>> -- >>>>> Henry Minsky >>>>> Software Architect >>>>> [email protected] >
