Sorry for the attached image here. You can disregard it...
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Raju Bitter
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Tucker, maybe you are getting the impression that I'm criticizing or
> attacking the OpenLaszlo team. My apologies, that's not my intention,
> and you know much I respect your work and the work of the rest of your
> team. You can be assured, that whenever people ask me about
> OpenLaszlo, I've been praising the team, the technology and the
> amazing development speed of the whole project - not to mention your
> extreme helpfulness I have personally experienced since 2004.
>
> Maybe it's just time for me to move on, since I'm getting extremely
> tired out of the frustration which builds up when dealing with Laszlo
> in the past years.
>
> - Raju
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, P T Withington <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I think it's unfortunate that you damn the OpenLaszlo team because of
>> inaction on the part of Laszlo, Inc. Yes the team are (mostly) paid for by
>> Laszlo, Inc., but I hope you would judge the OpenLaszlo team on our own
>> merits. I feel Inc gives us a fair amount of latitude to cooperate with the
>> community and that we are fairly responsive (given that we do have to give
>> highest priority to our paymasters).
>>
>> The OL team have a lot of interest in mobile development, which I hope has
>> been evidenced by our response to your effort.
>>
>> I understand your concerns about Inc. But what's open about OL is going to
>> stay open — it's in the license. I see no reason for the community to not
>> make the most out of the support that Inc does give to the open project,
>> like the hosting of mailing lists and source repository and builds.
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2010, at 7:02, Raju Bitter <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [cc-ing laszlo-dev]
>>>
>>> I've thought about that as well, but I think that for people who are
>>> interested in developing mobile applications with OpenLaszlo, they
>>> shouldn't be confronted with the whole technical discussions around
>>> OpenLaszlo internals.
>>>
>>> Of course you could say that people can still use the laszlo-user
>>> mailing list, but my experience is that mobile developers have a whole
>>> range of questions around OS, devices, integration, etc. which is not
>>> relevant to the normal RIA developers. It could even confuse beginners
>>> seeing many entries where people report that OpenLaszlo isn't working
>>> on this or that device.
>>>
>>> Why haven't I talked to the OpenLaszlo team first to create a mailing
>>> list? Because there has been - as it appeared to me - no interest from
>>> the Laszlo technical management team to discuss a possible extension
>>> of OpenLaszlo to mobile devices. With David Temkin as the CTO at
>>> Laszlo, Jim Grandy as the OpenLaszlo director there was a lot of
>>> communication between the Laszlo technical management and the
>>> OpenLaszlo community. I can't even remember any announcement by anyone
>>> at Laszlo with at least director level regarding the future of
>>> OpenLaszlo, a project roadmap, the IDE project, future runtimes,
>>> mobile runtimes in the past two years. Yes, maybe you promise the CEO
>>> of some company you do business with to come up with a mobile runtime
>>> for Webtop, but we - the community - don't see anything happening!
>>>
>>> As a result, I don't have any motivation to contribute to OpenLaszlo
>>> under the umbrella of Laszlo, if there's an attitude of: "Just add
>>> value to the OpenLaszlo open source project, and we'll make sure that
>>> it helps US make more money. And in case you wonder what's going to
>>> happen with the platform in the future, we don't care to tell you."
>>> There's some truth in not communicating, the truth is: "We don't care
>>> about you."
>>>
>>> I remember a discussion with the SugarCRM CTO, very impressive person.
>>> He said: "The key to the success of SugarCRM is the enormously active
>>> SugarCRM community all around the world".
>>> And now check this page:http://www.sugarcrm.com/crm/partners/sugarcrm-
>>> partners.html
>>> SugarCRM has 160 partners in the US, and 90 outside the US.
>>> Compare that withhttp://www.laszlosystems.com/partners/
>>>
>>> Sugar has been open source for 5 years now:http://www.sugarforge.org/
>>> content/5years/
>>> Remember when I came up with the idea of a "5 years of OpenLaszlo
>>> party". You all know what happened, nothing!
>>>
>>> Currently it sometimes feels like OpenLaszlo is open source only,
>>> because it has been open sourced a long time ago, and the company
>>> can't make the step back to making it a closed source product. I fear
>>> that any community work on mobile components, touch enabled
>>> components, mobile runtimes could result in the creation of a closed
>>> source, commercial mobile runtime by Laszlo which will be partially
>>> based on work by the community.
>>>
>>> My current plan is to host all the information which everyone
>>> contributing to Mobile OpenLaszlo - including the discussion list - at
>>> mobileopenlaszlo.org. The website should be a platform for OpenLaszlo
>>> contributors and committers around the world, done by the community
>>> for the community. Give me a few good reasons why I shouldn't do that,
>>> and I'm open to a discussion here.
>>>
>>> Raju
>>>
>>> On Jun 25, 5:40 pm, P T Withington <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think it would be fine to use laszlo-dev for this discussion. Or we can
>>>> create a new mailing list if people object.
>>>
>>>> On Jun 25, 2010, at 10:10, Raju Bitter
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> And here some more detailed information:
>>>>> http://gigaom.com/2010/03/29/china-now-blocking-google-mobile-services/
>>>
>>>>> Same seems to happening for Iran:
>>>>> http://www.rottengods.com/2010/04/iran-blocked-google-groups.html
>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Raju Bitter
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, I'm pretty surprised myself. I never thought that they'd extend
>>>>>> the blocking of Google to the Google Groups. Here's an old discussion
>>>>>> from 2007 where people complain about it as well:
>>>>>> http://markmail.org/message/gevc3ckpio3p6jcc#query:china%20google%20g...
>>>
>>>>>> | All forums of Google Groups are being blocked in China. So, even I
>>>>>> | want to access to the internal forums set up for discussion between
>>>>>> | colleagues, I cannot.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | Therefore, I need now to warn all colleagues outside China not to use
>>>>>> | Google Groups.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | if it goes on, I am afraid some other Google App such as Google Doc,
>>>>>> | which does allow people to shares thoughts publicly and with
>>>>>> | authorized access, will be blocked as well.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | Google must do something to eliminate this great hindrance for users.
>>>>>> | Or it should warn people for such potential drawback before people
>>>>>> | toil to set up something.
>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Henry Minsky <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Wow, that's an unfortunate situation , do they forbid it in China to
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> people from
>>>>>>> talking to each other about politics?
>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Raju Bitter
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> As I just learned from the OpenLaszlo forums
>>>>>>>> (http://forum.openlaszlo.org/showpost.php?p=46470&postcount=17), the
>>>>>>>> Google Group is not accessible out of China. I will set up a new
>>>>>>>> mailing list which can be reached out of China as well.
>>>
>>>>>>>> - Raju
>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Henry Minsky
>>>>>>> Software Architect
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>
>>
>
