Hey guys,

Nice chatter here. I'm familiar with accounting but still not comfortable 
with the negative numbers in ledger (for certain categories of accounts). 
This thread is very helpful - I'm going to star it for reference when I get 
back to do some heavy lifting for my accounting work.

Thanks,

Kinley

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 3:19:18 AM UTC+6, Rick F wrote:
>
> Unearned revenue is definitely not a liability.
>
> If you're struggling with accounting, you shouldn't be messing with 
> accrual based accounts like unearned income or accounts payable anyway. 
>  Just stick with cash based accounts, accounts that only change when cash 
> actually changes hands.
>
> Just keep it simple.  Start with the big five and add sub-accounts only 
> when you have to.
>
> 2015/1/1  Sale
>   Assets $100.00
>   Income
>
> 2015/1/1  Account transfer
>   Assets $10.00
>   Assets
>
> 2015/1/2  Bill
>   Expenses $50.00
>   Assets
>
>
> So now you know when cash moved around, but it's not very useful.  Take a 
> look at that account transfer transaction.  It doesn't tell you anything. 
>  You probably would like to know how much is in your checking account. 
>  This doesn't really tell you.  So add a checking subaccount.
>
> 2015/1/1  Sale
>   Assets:Checking $100.00
>   Income
>
> 2015/1/1  Account transfer
>   Assets:Savings $10.00
>   Assets:Checking
>
> 2015/1/2  Bill
>   Expenses $50.00
>   Assets:Checking
>
>
>  What if you want to know how much you spent on your electric bill last 
> year?  Again, you can't find that out from this account structure so add a 
> subaccount.
>
> 2015/1/2  Bill
>   Expenses:Electricity $50.00
>   Assets:Checking
>
>
> What if you also want to know how much you spent on all utilities in 
> addition to asking about electricity.  That's right, just add another 
> subaccount.  Since Electricity is also a utility, put it into the Utilities 
> account:
>
> 2015/1/2  Bill
>   Expenses:Utilities:Electricity $50.00
>   Assets:Checking
>
> What if you want to know how much it cost you to maintain your office, not 
> just your utilities.  Add yet another subaccount.
>
>  2015/1/2  Bill
>   Expenses:Office:Utilities:Electricity $50.00
>   Assets:Checking
>
>
> What if you don't want to know that?  Then don't add the extra level.
>
> What if you want to know how much of your money is in which bank?  Add a 
> subaccount:
>
> 2015/1/1  Account transfer
>   Assets:First National Credit Union:Savings $10.00
>   Assets:Citibank:Checking
>
>
> What if you want to know how much of your money is in credit unions vs. 
> banks vs. brokerage accounts?  That's right, add a subaccount.
>
> 2015/1/1  Account transfer
>   Assets:Credit Unions:First National Credit Union:Savings $10.00
>   Assets:Banks:Citibank:Checking
>
> What if you never need to ask that question?  Save yourself the trouble 
> (and typing) and just don't add those subaccounts.  There's a strong 
> temptation when you're starting accounting to try and account for 
> everything.  What if you want to keep track of local vs. remote banks?  Add 
> a subaccount, otherwise don't.  Save yourself from having to type something 
> stupid like
>
> "Assets:Liquid:Banks:Multinational:Remote:USA:Northeast:New York:New 
> York:Manhattan:Citibank:Checking"
>
> every time you write a check.
>
> What if you want to keep track of what income came from sales vs. from 
> your salary?  Add another subaccount!
>
> 2015/1/1  Sale
>   Assets:Checking $100.00
>   Income:Sales
>
>
>  Now let's talk about negative and positive.  Note I cleverly wrote all 
> those transactions without a single minus sign.  All I had to do was record 
> where the money ended up as the first thing and left the other amount to be 
> implied.  I could have written it in:
>
> 2015/1/1  Sale
>   Assets:Checking $100.00
>   Income:Sales -$100.00
>
>
> But Ledger doesn't make me do it, so I don't.
>
> Wait a minute.  Why are sales negative?  That's confusing, but so be it. 
>  That's not a bad reason to leave the negative side of your transactions to 
> Ledger's inference. I started with where the money ended up, that's 
> positive, so wherever it came from is negative.  Does that mean expenses 
> are positive?  You betcha.  That's where my money ended up.  If that's 
> where the money in the transaction ended up, that means its positive.  I 
> certainly have no trouble understanding the money LEFT my checking account, 
> so it makes sense that side of the transaction is negative.
>
> I'm not saying don't use minus signs.  Sometimes it would be more complex 
> to try and split a transaction into enough pieces to get rid of all the 
> minus signs.  I only did it in this case to drive home the point: Wherever 
> the cash ended up, that part of the transaction is positive.  If the cash 
> didn't end up there, it's negative.
>
> That's enough for now.  Don't read past this point or you'll just get 
> confused.
>
> It shouldn't be said, but if I don't say something it'll bug me the rest 
> of the day.  Technically, cost of goods sold is an income category, not an 
> expense, because it goes into calculating your income, not your expenses. 
>  If you buy a widget for $3 and sell it for $5, that's $2 of income.
>
> Now just because it's a subaccount of income doesn't mean it's money 
> coming in.  Buying the widget for $3 is definitely money going out, but 
> money doesn't normally go out when you're talking about income, so that 
> means cost of goods sold is a negative income account and since income is 
> already negative in ledger, that makes it a double negative account which 
> is positive, which....uh......  You know what?  Just forget I brought it 
> up.  If you record it as an expense your bottom line (profit) will still 
> work out just fine.
>
> On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 9:15:18 AM UTC-7, Kev Lau wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stefan,
>> Thanks for your input. 
>> Yes I am trying to limit to 5 accounts. Expenses,Revenue,Assets,Liability 
>> and Equity.
>> About positive and negative, I am still little confused so will go back 
>> to reading more on Debit and Credit systems. i think I need help there.
>> Yes. I should have first a Liabilities:Unearned_Revenue: before going to 
>> the Expenses:CostofGoodsSold. 
>>
>> I think I will familiarize myself with positive and negative accounts.
>>
>> Thanks very much for the constructive feedback. It helped open my eyes.
>>
>> Will rectify the mistakes and re-post. Your feedback is very valuable to 
>> me.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 4:52:16 PM UTC+7, Kev Lau wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, 
>>> I am still having difficulties with coming up with a proper mean of 
>>> using a ledger for my business. I am hoping that someone here could see my 
>>> Ledger and tell me if it looks sound. I don't want to make alot of entries 
>>> and later realize I have been doing it wrong. I have read some material on 
>>> accounting and feel that I understand how to make entries(but not sure how 
>>> well I am organized and structured)
>>>
>>> Below is a sample of my hypothetical testing ledger. If you could have a 
>>> look and give me some advise/tips I would deeply appreciate it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:ASSETS:CASH:CITIBANK          US$-12,998.06       
>>> ;cash recd, debit to cash acct.
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:LIABILITIES:ACCOUNT_PAYABLE:VENTURE_ENTERPRISE    US$ 
>>> 12,998.06
>>>
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:BANK:CITBANK:FEES    US$-19.35   ;cash paid 
>>> out credit to cash acct.
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:BANK:CITIBANK:FEES    US$-77.41   ;cash paid 
>>> out credit to cash acct.
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:ASSETS:BANK:CASH
>>>
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:ASSETS:CASH:CITIBANK          US$-4,998.06
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:LIABILITIES:ACCOUNT_PAYABLE:VENTURE-ENTERPRISE    US$ 
>>> 4,998.06
>>>
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:BANK:CITIBANK:FEES    US$-34.19
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:COST_OF_GOODS_SOLD:TRIA_SOLAR:INV004    
>>> US$-12,000.00
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:BANK:CITIBANK:FEES    US$-34.19
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:EXPENSES:COST_OF_GOODS_SOLD:DYNO_WORKS:INV004    
>>> US$-3,808.00
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:ASSETS:CASH:CITIBANK
>>>
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:REVENUE:SALES:MICROSOFT:INV004                            
>>>    
>>> US$6,000.00
>>> #GENERAL_ELECTRIC:ASSETS:RECEIVABLES:INV004                      
>>> US$-6,000.00
>>>
>>>
>>>

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