I’m not taking anything personally, and wasn’t meaning to be insulting towards you – I said before that none of us have a clue when it comes to being a professional football manager, so cant be expected to understand the nuances of what effect an individual player will have on a football team, positive or negative.
All I was trying to say was that there ARE effects a player will have on a team, and picking a team based on how decent they look to your average supporter is probably about as effective as picking the first 11 players alphabetically. Football is just not as simple as that, and for me it is akin to asking a 4 year old to appraise a Picasso. They would probably call it “shit” because the eye is in the wrong place. From: Richard Walker [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 November 2011 18:41 To: Mark Humphries; 'Neil Hackett'; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff Point of order - I've always thought Ben Parker was shit and why you taking this personally , I'm not on about just you. Other points: Ben Parker is slow, but he's quicker than Harte. Bradley Johnson - my God he played worse than a pub player for a very long time for us. He offered nothing so don't give me that. From: Mark Humphries <[email protected]> To: 'Richard Walker' <[email protected]>; 'Neil Hackett' <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 18:15 Subject: RE: [LU] Cardiff <sigh> Harte – everyone knew/accepted he was a bit pedestrian, and that he might possibly “cost us”, but some people believed his goals were worth that risk. BALANCE. McPhail was always a good passer, but was again limited – I don’t remember anyone saying anything other than that, there may have been arguments about whether he only passed sideways and backwards. In a midfield with Kewell & Batty/Dacourt he played a role. BALANCE. Bakke – He lost some effectiveness towards the end (don’t we all), but again in the prem team he definitely WAS effective – got about the pitch and scored some goals. BALANCE. Viduka – he played in the premiership for years after he left us. Butler/Gregan – we all knew how limited they were, whats your point? What happened to Kewell after he left Leeds? Or Smith? Or Robinson? Or Woodgate? I could go on. Does that prove they were shit at Leeds? It is easy to be negative, and all players get a bit crap in the end, and given we are talking predominantly about players in a championship or league one team, yes there are going to be better players and their limitations are more obvious (on the whole) than premiership players – but you only seem to focus on certain players and their particular limitation, and pay no heed to the benefits they offer the TEAM. That is why you’re nowhere near a football manager, because you are too naïve, too simplistic, too blinkered. And how about your golden boys.. what ever happened to Ben Parker? I also like the way you appreciate Keogh’s work-rate, it is encouraging to see that you can look beyond goals scored when it comes to a forward. With Becchio you don’t see that, and funnily enough you can NOT look beyond HOW a goal is scored with him. If Becchio is the king of 2 yrd tap-ins, why is it no one else is currently scoring those tap-ins? And lets get this straight, I prefer Keogh/McCormack as a partnership to Becchio/McCormack. The point is, I can see everything that Becchio offers the team, and I can see why professional football managers and coaches do too. For the record I think Ben Parker - is shit… slower than Harte, worse at defending, worse at attacking. However, I have also seen some players who I thought were good players, then total shite, then not bad (Gareth Barry) – so I know players form fluctuates, and that form/confidence plus TEAM BALANCE nuances beyond my ken, can contribute to that. Finally, ever since Bradley Johnson joined us you said he was crap – nothing but a pub player. Some of us tried to explain what he offered to the team, when he was playing out of position. You thought we were nuts. Then he got a run in the middle – we saw he was more effective playing as the holding player than left mid – you still said he was crap. Then his role changed slightly (nuances/balance) and he started to chip in more with goals and get more confident and be more creative. Eventually you started seeing what the rest of us had been saying for years. I would have hope that offered you some food for thought!? From: Richard Walker [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 November 2011 17:13 To: Mark Humphries; 'Neil Hackett'; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff It's always a question of time before the real answers to our debates can be settled ? What did happen to Ian Harte when it was realised he didn't have the pace to play in the premiership ? Obviously the list expert was telling everyone at least a season before that he would cost us dearly. Where did Mcphail end up playing most of his football ? Never good enough to play at the top level despite his 2 goals at Chelsea. THe list expert couldn't convince people though ? What did Bakke do when he left Leeds ? THe list expert knew he was overrated and he even struggled to make an impact when we went down. What did fat b'stard Viduka do when he left Leeds - not a right f;cking lot. The list expert always thought he was talenented but he didn't have the drive or ambition. His career petered out. What happened to Paul Butler and Sean Gregan ? Both never good enough to play in a team hoping for promotion. The list expert was telling people this way before they came to a sticky end in the Watford play off match. I could go on ..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's see how Becchio's career maps out ? Let's see how Bradley Johnson's career ? You all know Uncle Rich is right. From: Mark Humphries <[email protected]> To: 'Neil Hackett' <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 15:52 Subject: RE: [LU] Cardiff Quite - it's not like people on here are suggesting Pugh or Becchio are international standard. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Neil Hackett Sent: 02 November 2011 15:35 To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff I have seen him play a few times. I would say that he has done well enough that he could play regularly for more than half of the teams in the Premiership. He is certainly not England class but I'm not sure he's that much worse than Barry. > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:26:12 +0000 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff > > So on the Bradley Johnson issue - on the face of it he has proved to us doubters that he can play football and I think I admitted as much last season on some of his displays. He is certainly better than a pub player however I haven't seen Norwich play this season so I can't comment. So I thought I'd go onto the Norwich forum and see what they throught about our Bradley. Here's one of the comments (and there are several similar): > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > bradley johnson has been great but > if he is england class we have more to worry about than rooneys > suspension > > > From: Richard Walker <[email protected]> > To: Richard Naef <[email protected]>; 'list leedslist' > <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 13:58 > Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff > > Never said I was any sort of expert, just a paying punter with 40 years experience of watching Leeds. > > > > From: Richard Naef <[email protected]> > To: 'list leedslist' <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 10:39 > Subject: Re: [LU] Cardiff > > Look Mark, you don't understand - if a player is identified as "shit" by the list experts, he is shit until the day he dies. Look at that muppet Bradley Johnson, he was shit, all the experts agreed, and look what happened to him, disappeared with no trace ;) it doesn't matter what happens or what the facts are a shit player is always shit. > > I'd give up arguing about it, I have. > > > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate
