On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Edward K. Ream <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:00 PM, ne1uno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > a few rambling thoughts. it is always about the editor! > > The fun thing about the creative phase is that contradiction works. > You can say, "it's about the editor" and I'll so, yes, in a sense. > And yet the project is more exciting than doing yet another gui for > Leo :-) > Waah! But I want a talented programmer to write a mindmapping GUI for Leo! (I'm convinced that that interface would be the key to moving towards something more like an operating system) But the likes of me will long pine away, wither away with lost hope . . . :-) Seth > > > sounds to me like a deeper study of AWK is in order. > > The pattern matcher? Pattern matching may be a big part. > > > I have not needed pythoscope or lib2to3. is it for python3k? > > Developed for py3k, but it has more general uses. > > > there is a huge > > need for easier data visualization to enable more flexible > > translation tasks. > > I agree. I still think of Sherlock fondly. Adding Sherlock features > to Python's Logger would help it a lot. > > Anyway, clever visualization is indeed very important, both as an end > product and as a way of studying complex code. > > > maybe data translation is program generation afterall. > > I may not be talking about program generation as people typically do. > Everything is blurry now, which is a good sign. > > > more scriptability, easier to grasp API's, self healing, > > are they enabled with better completion and help lookup? > > some new combination of libs? we seem to love to invalidate > > most of the work already accomplished every few (months,) years > > in order to arrive at the need for ever more tricky translation > > tasks just to break even. prodigious amounts of hardware and > > software upgrades littering the path to there > > as well as lost efficiencies of scale when the installed base shrinks. > > Well, nobody wants to hold on to the Wright Brothers first flyer :-) > > > more concretely, how great would it be to further enhanced the > > ability of plugins to troubleshoot themselves instead of the current > > situation of waiting for new or renewed users to provide traceback > > after a failure. > > I want pythoscope to generate test cases for plugins. That would be > better than the present nothing. > > > has anyone succeeded in teaching a computer the intent of a plugin? > > so we make better debuggers for more trials and little progress. > > I like your discontent :-) It's the spur to improvements. I'm not > sure we are discontented about the same things, but probably that > doesn't matter. > > > can I suggest a first order of business is to divorce Leo > > from python? as good as it has been for Leo it is now a drag. > > There is nothing half as good as Python. If you need C++, the only > proper thing to do is to wrap it in Python. Usually that isn't > needed, but there is no way I'm ever going to mess with C++ again. > That would be a big step backwards. > > > as comfortable as python may well be. several orders of > > newer versions will still leave us basically where we are. > > Why do you say that? What we need are higher and higher tools. We > can't begin to get those tools messing with C++. > > > we haven't begun to mine the > > archives for data visualization and translation technologies > > that have at various times been brought up in connection with > > Leo as the bridge if only we could see all the pieces at once > > and be there with a grasp of how to get from here to there. > > Leo's breakthroughs have been mostly ideas: script buttons, @auto, > @shadow. ILeo and the minibuffer may be exceptions: the > implementation was (mostly) everything. > > > it often takes someone on both sides to meet in the middle. > > Many people here can contribute on both sides. > > > so what can pythoscope do that AWK hasn't > > already mapped out as possible 40 years ago? > > I think you are bit pessimistic :-) As you say, details matter. I > know for sure that Python + Tkinter opened doors that were never > visible with Borland C++, though theoretically both platforms were > equivalent. > > Rather than worrying about what is possible, the thing to do now is to > read widely, looking for a) what works and b) what doesn't work. Both > are valuable, and both contribute to progress. > > Edward > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
