Yes, learning curve is step from non programmers. I was not a coder when I started with Leo and it took me a decade or so, to overcome the step learning curve. Meanwhile I was happy with clones and deconstructing scripts and config files from others in a tree I understood and then use @auto to flat them again.
That's why a friendly way to sharing plugins and themes was the most felt need for me the first decade of my Leo usage. Then I wrote my first traversing tree plugin, because, despite of requiring a lot of time investing, it was even worse not to have it and even more time consuming. Then I needed more interactivity and modifiability and that took me away from Python/Leo into Pharo/Grafoscopio. But the think is that Leo, Jupyter, TeXmacs and other FLOSS tools opened for me a path of self improvement and mastery search that has not end. I think that maybe you need to find that task automation that you are doing by hand now, and where the time investment is worthy enough for a busy person to learn how to automate it in a custom way that no generic tool will give you. That's where Leo shines in the Python world (and Pharo in the Smalltalk world). Cheers, Offray On 19/07/19 8:37 a. m., gar wrote: > I want to add some more words about leo's learning curve. > To use leo efficiently you need to invest inconceivable amount of > time. You need to examine code which makes buttons, debug why > shortcuts doesn't work, investigate theme issue etc. > There are plenty of topics which are just touched in the manual and > which promise you the real power if you learn them. > I do remember how all of my everyday activities just stopped for a 2 > weeks when I found leo - and I cannt say that those 2 weeks gave me > alot.... > > Actually, you need to invest about couple of years to start gain real > profit from leo - which is quite comparable with vim or emacs. > But there's no such a time resource to invest, and I believe most if > new users just quit - cause leo w/o knowing it's magic runes is not > really that attractive as any of modern IDE. > > I came into leo just because i already used IDEs for years, I know > them all - MSVS, Intelli, RStudio, plain VIM etc - and I do see where > they are weak and how Leo can help in that fields. > but even with this knowledge I cant answer where to take time to learn > another super complicated tool - especially when memories about how > hard did it take to learn vim are so alive.... > And then you start to think that RStudio + bookdown is quite good for > you - just because you can just install it and get immediate result > and you dont need to spend evenings experimenting with DOM and @button. > > пт, 19 июл. 2019 г. в 16:10, gar <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>: > > Hello Vladimir. > > Actually I discovered Leo when I tried to compile my diploma > chapters into a single book. It was a bundle of MD files which > took alot of attention to chain into anything reasonable. i guess > you know what am I talking about. > > Leo solves this problem absolutely. It's perfect for writing any > kind of texts. But I do really miss some editing commands I use > frequently with vim. > Now I am making node texts very small to edit them as rarely as > possible but it's not the right approach. > If I had more time and knowledge - I would make some outstanding > plugins which fix all that editing crap but... for now I have to > re-teach myself for another editing paradigm. Which I dont really > like, actually. > > So the first-call task for me is to adopt Leo to my editing > habits. I agree to loose VIM language - but I need all the variety > of it's features back. Some of them can be found in the standard > leo's commands (like rectangular select) but most of them work > with it's own flavor - and it's hard to accept. I am still not > sure that I will stay with leo more since I just dont want to > loose VIM habits I learnt for years which seem more powerful for > me than LEO's outstanding features. OK, almost everything LEO > suggests I can make with global search-n-replace.... > > Until I solve the editing issues I wont be able to give more > feedback about other limitations. I am trying to code some utility > commands and I love it, python looks more pleasant for me then > vimscript, etc, etc, but.... > > чт, 18 июл. 2019 г. в 20:13, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>: > > Hi, > > The path Vitalije is suggesting was the one that worked best > for me with Leo... but took me years to discover it by myself. > My first script was one that took a Leo (sub)tree and exported > as a Markdown file in a desired path, using Leo node headers > as Markdown headers and Leo node bodies as contents for such > headers. The code was crappy and I never packaged it as a > plugin (or even made a keyboard shortcut), but it taught me a > lot about Leo main feature: a programmable DOM/tree that could > be introspected/changed from any of its scripts nodes. That > started the path that allow me to build my own (Pharo powered) > interactive outliner for the PhD. > > It was until I started to use the programmable DOM that Leo > opened really for me (before that, the killer feature, as a > non-programmer were clones), because I understood that Leo > provided an extensibility layer to deal with its own > limitations via scripting (which aligned with my PhD question > on "how can we change the digital tools that change us"). I > think that such scriptabilty possibilities could be better > transmitted if we have some friendlier "end user" experience > to install plugins, something like the stuff Atom or Firefox > do, listing all installed and available plugins and making > them one click away of distance. > > So, following on Vitalije's advice, I would invite you to see, > which limitations Leo has for *you* right now and to explore > which is the simplest script to overcome it and talk with the > community to see how can we be companions for such travel. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 28/06/19 4:28 a. m., vitalije wrote: >> >> I think that I should pay more attention in learning the >> paradigm. Read more docs, try to write a couple of plugins. >> For now I need a tool to build my book from Rmds - maybe >> it'll be a good challenge to write such a plugin which >> would connect Leo, bookdown and R. >> >> I suggest you to start by writing scripts for experimenting. >> Once you have a good and useful script you can put a headline >> on it something like '@button my-script @key=Alt-4' . >> (replace my-script with something meaningful and Alt-4 with >> the shortcut of your choice). Next time you open that >> outline your new command, a toolbar button and shortcut are >> at your service. >> >> Once you have a bunch of usable scripts you might want to >> pack them in a plugin. >> >> Everything you need to do you can achieve by writing scripts >> only. Plugins are more for sharing useful scripts. Developing >> a plugin is not so easy because for every change you need to >> start a new instance of Leo to check if it works or not. OTOH >> scripts are live, and every change in the script is >> immediately visible. If you put your scripts in >> myLeoSettings.leo they will be present in every other outline >> you open, almost as if they become an integral part of Leo. >> >> Vitalije >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "leo-editor" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >> it, send an email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/29f2dddf-e576-406f-ae5a-7157b7644337%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/29f2dddf-e576-406f-ae5a-7157b7644337%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/91bc88ab-76f8-8056-a983-22030d8a1a45%40riseup.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/91bc88ab-76f8-8056-a983-22030d8a1a45%40riseup.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAC%2B8SVxtSEvB0wSt_zGVURhj02jDxRQ3yLQ-NJjjL%3DwM_timPA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAC%2B8SVxtSEvB0wSt_zGVURhj02jDxRQ3yLQ-NJjjL%3DwM_timPA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. 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