Agreed. VS code is a pretty good bridge for Leo to the masses (what some proposed saw on Jupyter but finally after some exploration it was not). Despite of that niche tools are important too (Leo over native Python is a probe of that). Now that we are exploring the path to the masses, telling that niche tools are lame seems kind of the "new rich" approach talking bad about the poor (where the rich once belonged).
The more I use Spacemacs, the more I found appeal on it that I have not found in Leo (and viceversa, the more I understand Leo value propossals, despite of my minimal to null Leo usage this days). I hope at some point to incorporate the advantage of the tools I know and have used in my own outliner [1], which needs a lot of works, but also showcases possibilities not found on any of the those I have used so far, nor on VS Code. They still will have an appeal to the populations those tools congregate around and I will try to point my criticism towards particular (anti)features (ie MS data collection or its monopolic practices) instead of a general critic towards a "lame" tool or way of using it. As digital artisans we take pride on our tools so open but specific criticism about them is better, acknowledging our bias and finding value where is due. [1] https://mutabit.com/grafoscopio/en.html Cheers, Offray On 24/07/20 10:17 a. m., [email protected] wrote: > *TLDR; If LeoInteg is what brings Leo to the masses, more power to you > and Felix and everyone else who gets to experience the wonder of Leo. > But lets keep things factual and objective and keep the editor > age-discrimination to a minimum, that's not why we're here.* > > These two videos are not a good comparison. They show two different > features, tree-based editing vs settings. First off, vscode's settings > system is pretty slick, but emacs has had */literally/ the exact same > feature* since at least the year 2000 > <https://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/Manuals/emacs-20.7/html_node/emacs_437.html> (I > didn't look farther back than that);/ /it's > called /customize-apropos/. So let's not pat them on the back for > re-implementing a 20+ year-old feature from emacs and then provide it > as a reason why emacs is "on the way out". In addition, org-mode will > never be as good at tree/graph based editing as Leo is, but that is > because that is specifically what Leo is best at. Tangling in emacs is > pretty clunky, but It's still better than almost everything else which > has no tree-based editing. If you want to organize code as > trees/graphs you have /very few/ options, org-mode happens to be one > of them. > > The soothsayers have been predicting emacs' death for a while now. > Based on my investigations, emacs was never popular to begin with. > I've heard it was once "far more popular" than it is now, but it never > reach the popularity of a Borland or Microsoft product, or Eclipse. It > never made its way out of the shadows. But everyone here (in the > shadows) know /how little that means. / > > Emacs is niche. It appeals to "configuration nuts" who, once they get > a taste for how much it can do out of the box and how much it can be > configured tend to get hooked on it. I think Leo appeals to a similar > audience. Each have a unique set of features that some find too good > to pass up for more popular editors. > > I work in a bandwidth constrained environment where usually the only > tolerable editors are text only through ssh in a terminal. vim and > emacs fall into that category, emacs having way more features. emacs, > to this day, has most features available in terminal mode. This gives > me a snappy, feature-filled editor that is available on most systems. > Few full-featured editor-IDEs maintain terminal support. Vscode never > will. > > I also share some of the caution that others here have expressed about > vscode's affiliation with Microsoft. Modern corporate capitalism > hasn't proven itself to be a friend of humanity. > > On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 7:47:58 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote: > > Imo, this video > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PJjP0nE98&t=233s> shows why > some many people are excited about vs code. > > The video demonstrates the Prettier plugin, and along the way > demos vs code's superb configuration system. There is /so/ much to > like about vs code! > > In contrast, this video > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQe1ul51RM0>laboriously shows how > to Leonize a file using emacs org mode. It's pretty lame :-) Imo, > emacs is on it's way out, and leoInteg will speed it along it's > way :-) > > Edward > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/86a4947e-f98c-4615-a261-4fca949e032an%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/86a4947e-f98c-4615-a261-4fca949e032an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/728eda66-5f20-06cc-3933-803c544c8a82%40riseup.net.
