To be brief and frank -- @buttons are an objectively bad solution to this
for a casual user.  An @button to set their favorite layout is:

1) inflexible -- a button will set a *specific* layout, and nothing else
2) bespoke -- require *development time* of the user, or to go begging on
the mailing list for someone else to do the work, which is objectively a
bad UX
3) clutter -- would add both cognitive *and* visual clutter to an outline

I feel that 'layout plugins' would assist with this, but they'd still be
supremely inflexible.  For the non-programming user, we went from 'you can
have any layout you want' to 'here are your choices, get over it'.

To point #1, with the old easter-egg approach, I frequently manipulated
layouts dynamically within the same workbook, to achieve what I needed *at
the time, on the fly*. Some layouts I only ended up using for a few
minutes, *as suited my workflow*. There was also the layout saving+loading
mechanism that helped switch when desired to a series of 'stable' layouts,
across all outlines.

To #2, requiring a user to a) know the API, and b) be willing to put in the
effort to write a custom bespoke script just to *move a panel around*.
This is a bit much.

#3 is nothing new in Leo world, but is just one more point of friction for
new users.

If the splitters had context menus to add new splits, and panes had
click&drag handles to let you move them around, my whole issue would be
resolved.  No new commands, no new plugins, no absurd development time
requests of basic users.  The music app Foobar2000 does this by having a
togglable 'layout editing mode' that only surfaces these features when
editing the layout -- otherwise your layout is set in stone.  Just one
model to look to for inspiration -- it works well there, extremely so.

Again, my $0.02.  I don't ask you to *regret* removing free_layout, just to
consider what it is you actually put up in its place.  I also ask you to
not neglect mouse users -- we are the majority of computer users.

Jake

On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 7:33 AM Thomas Passin <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 7:05:08 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 8:51 PM Jacob Peck <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> This being the largest regression I've seen Leo go through in 12 years is
> a *testament* to how fantastic this app is.  Which also, somehow,
> heightens it absence.  It's just a little less 'perfect' now, even as it's
> more structurally sound 'under the hood'.
>
>
> I agree that some help would be welcome.  Thomas's scripts are an
> excellent starting point.
>
> Those scripts are a good *ending* point if you are good with changing the
> layout using `@button` nodes.
>
>
> Too many buttons aren't good. Once one has a script, it can also be added
> to a menu, as another possibility.  That's what I have done with a script
> to move the log frame from the tree's splitter to the body's splitter.
> Partly which way to go it depends on when and how often you use the script.
>
>
> I don't recommend enabling scripts on startup. It's too big a security
> concern. Instead, I recommend creating new *layout plugins*.  Outlines
> could enable the most appropriate plugin.
>
> *Summary*
>
> - There is no need for yet another API or yet more commands.
> - `@button` scripts are best when one wants to allow multiple layouts in
> an outline.
> -  Bespoke *layout plugins* are another way to package non-standard
> layouts.
>
>
> I think that Jacob's concern is that out of the box there is no way for a
> user to set up or choose a different layout, except for the
> *Window/Toggle-Split-Direction*  menu item.  That's somewhat useful but
> some users will want more layout possibilities. With the nested splitter
> context menu, at least there were possibilities that were obscure in the
> extreme but could be experimented with. I think that most users don't want
> to or aren't willing to spend the time to learn to write scripts to create
> new layouts.
>
> I think that layout plugins are a promising way forward, and we should
> provide several so Leo will have them out-of-the-box ... as soon as we can
> learn what layouts people want ...
>
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