Libertarian position includes self-defense as you well know....
I know that you're not stupid, so why are you promoting a distortion? -Terry Liberty Parker AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV via www.PeerCast.org --- In [email protected], Deus Ex Machina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > as an outside observer I think you have hit the nail on the head, > the curent libertarian passion for absolute pacificism does not resonate > with the US's history where every freedom and liberty has had to be > fought for and paid for in blood. > > I think this is some form of modern libertarian schizophrenia where the > reality of the libertarian pacificistic promise is out of sync with reality. > > throughout history pacifists have had their asses kicked again and > again. only ghandi has had any success with pacificsm and only with a > very mild and weak british occupational regime. > > I have also noticed for a bunch that claim to be pacifists libertarians > on this list are only too keen to advocate guns and killing. > > it might sound neo-con but imo the US has a duty to spread liberty and > freedom. without US military power liberty just doesnt take root under the > influence of socialists and other tin pot dictators. > > Vic > > > Eric Dondero Rittberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Greg, I might remind you that a significant number of libertarians > > are also Pro-War and subscribe precisely to the believe you express > > below that it is our duty as Americans to spread our beliefs in > > liberty and freedom worldwide. > > > > I am a passionate believer in that credo. > > > > I've never understood the hypocritical stance of many Libertarians > > who believe we should be non-intervenionist and ignore the rest of > > the World. How ass-backwards! As libertarians we should be > > SPREADING THE GOOD CHEER OF LIBERTY WORLDWIDE!!! And if that means > > desposing of brutal murderous dictators like Pol Pot and Saddam > > Hussein, then that's PRECISELY what we need to be doing!!! > > > > So, "interventionism" is NOT just a conservative stance, IT'S A > > LIBERTARIAN STANCE AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Greg Southworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > I agree that the best bet appears to be the Republican Party. I > > wish those who wish to work within the Democratic Party the best. > > Interestingly, there may be a window of opportunity with the Dems > > now due to the generally dismal performance outside the Northeast, > > the West Coast and Upper Midwest, but I personally believe they will > > have much more to overcome as one of the guiding views of the > > Democratic Party is that your elected representatives are only as > > good as the last high dollar project they brought home to the state, > > district, or particular community. Of course, Republicans are not > > immune to this either, but at least limited government is in their > > lexicon if not their practice. > > > > > > One important caveat in working with the Republicans, a little > > quirk I find annoying. When a problem is identified, their first > > reaction is to say the problem does not exist, or that it is not > > that bad. This is especially the case with the conservative variety. > > An excellent example involves pollution and issues around the > > environment. Rather than acknowledge that pollution is a form of > > criminal trespass and advocate treating it as a violation of > > property rights, they will say: 1) pollution does not exist (i.e. > > denial), or 2) pollution is good for you (i.e. a form of > > minimization), or 3) identifying the problem is part of a conspiracy > > to expand government (i.e. attribution of ulterior motives to the > > messengers). The irony is that it plays right into those who want > > more government because the "Republicans, it can now be seen are in > > bed with the moneyed interests who have a vested interest in keeping > > things the way they are (i.e. unaddressed)." > > > > > > Another caveat is in the field of foreign policy. For some reason, > > the Republicans have bought into a view which has its roots in what > > used to be the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. Neocons > > exemplify this perspective. America has a duty to export its power > > and influence in the world as we are the force for good. This will > > sometimes cause us to do things for the greater good even though the > > act itself may not be appealing--we must destroy the village to save > > it. But that's okay because we are America! > > > > > > My only point in saying these things is that we should be careful > > not to become just another flavor of conservative--ones who just > > want to save a little money. My hope is that we could transform the > > Republicans into a party that is libertarian, green, and committed > > to expanding the ownership society, which is done through the free > > markets. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > Deus Ex Machina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Eric Dondero Rittberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > I tried that route too. > > > > > > > > As you may know I worked for US Congressman Ron Paul for 6 years > > as > > > > his Senior Aide. A side project as Aide was American > > territorial > > > > possessions, specifically Navassa Island, Seranilla Banks and > > Bajo > > > > Nuevo in the Caribbean. > > > > > > > > I tried like hell for months to get libertarians interested in > > > > populating these uninhabited terriritories. Ron was into it > > too. > > > > > > > > Instead, they all got swept up by the nutty Free State Project > > and > > > > Ice Cold New Hampshire. > > > > > > > > There's only one route left for us; activism within the GOP. > > > > > > I think this is a sane response. the LP platforms are just so far > > out there > > > as to be inaccessible to ordinary people. > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > Libertarian English language Political parties Online dictionary > > American politics > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <font face=arial size=-1><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hqvbgh6/M=362329.6886306.7839369.3040540/D=groups/S=1705060682:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1124767030/A=2894321/R=0/SIG=11dvsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992 ">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!</a>.</font> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! 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