For a very courageous perspective by anti-Zionist Jews, see www.nkusa.org, the website of Neturei Karta.
For life and liberty, David Macko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: AOL Time-Warner Censors Alex Jones Websites > WHO US? ANTI-SEMITES? US? > > by Steven Plaut > > We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and > Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that > does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to > Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers. > > Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to > Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one > another. Venus and Mars. Night and day. Trust us. > > Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated > is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > Sure, we think that the only children on earth whose being blown up is > okay if it serves a good cause are Jewish children. But that does not > mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > Sure, we think that if Palestinians have legitimate grievances this > entitles them to mass murder Jews. But that does not mean we have > anything against Jews as such. Naturally, we think that the only > people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of > self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression > against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But > that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle > East that is not a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we > have anything against Jews as such. > > We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only > a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice > the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not > mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except > Jews, and including even the make-pretend "Palestinian people". But > that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We hate it when people blame the victims, except of course when people > blame the Jews for the jihads and terrorist campaigns against them. > But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We think the only country in the Middle East that is a fascist > anti-democratic one is the one that has free elections. But that does > not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, > free press or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have > anything against Jews as such. > > We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. > But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish > children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that > does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We do not think that Jews have any human rights that need to be > respected, and especially not the right to ride a bus without being > murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > There are Jewish, leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof > that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic; not even the > ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we > think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we > have anything against Jews as such.. We think the only conflict on > earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to > that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we > have anything against Jews as such. > > We do not think murder proves how righteous and just the cause of the > murderer is, except when it comes to murderers of Jews. But that does > not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must > submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style bi-national state, > although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, > should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But > that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We think that Israels having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag > makes it a racist apartheid state. We do not think any other country > having an ethnic-religious majority or having crosses or crescents or > Allah Akbar on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that > does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We condemn the mistreatment of women in the only country of the Middle > East in which they are not mistreated. But that does not mean we have > anything against Jews as such. > > We condemn the mistreatment of minorities in the only country in the > Middle East in which minorities are not brutally suppressed and mass > murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > We demand equal citizen rights, which is why the only country in the > Middle East in need of extermination is the only one in which such > rights exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as > such. > > We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion > in any Arab countries. But we are mad as hell at Israel for violating > religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where > or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against > Jews as such. > > So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply > anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, thats all. And surely that > does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. > > > > --- In [email protected], "Julius No" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> --- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> I did no such thing. You said it was a given that anti Zionist = anti >> Jewish. I have never agreed to your baseless claim of equating >> equivalence between words with different spellings. >> >> Quit trying to put words into peoples mouths that they did not say. >> That is a form of dishonesty that in another time would have gotten >> you challenged to a duel for your actions. Its that serious. >> >> Just so you know, My wife is of European jewish heritage from both >> branches of her family. But none of the family on either side agrees >> with the militant aims of Zionism. Since the basic middle of the road >> aims of Zionism have been realised by the creation of a State of >> Israel, (exception being the Ten thousand or more that demonstrate >> every year in NYC that say there should NOT be an Israel until the >> return of their Messiah) I see the need for Zionism is not there. (the >> symbolic serpent should have swallowed it's tail and disappeared since >> there is a State of Israel). >> >> Until you can show me a document signed by every living person of >> Jewish heritage that agrees Zionism = Judaism I will consider your >> words to be somewhere between substancially lacking in discernment or >> outright lying for some unspecified future gain. >> >> The penalty of such is that I will no longer correspond with you and >> encourage others to consider doing the same, until you apollogise, or >> at least change your ways by example of consistant libertarian living. >> >> There is really no need for a Zionist movement any more than there is >> a need for racial purity in Germany. The only real need for a zionist >> movement today is if those extreemist leaders wanted to destroy their >> neighbors (or trick the U.S. people into doing so) in order to steal >> everything from the Euphrates river to the Med. -to have a "Greater >> Israel" An idea that no Libertarian would go for, based on the >> deception and fraud that would be involved. >> >> Perhaps that is why my wife's family are here in the U.S. and not >> living in a war zone that is captive to extremists on both sides, >> backed by the Military Industrial complexes of the world. >> >> "too dim to notice" No. I noticed. It's just that I come to a list to >> exchange ideas and learn and share, not to debase my soul by insulting >> others with childish insults. >> >> I see you still have not supplied any specific proofs of Alex Jones >> spouting anything Anti Jewish. >> So, are you jealous! Reduced to attacking the messenger! How Base is > that? >> >> Have a wonderfull day! >> >> Julius >> (This was answered hours ago but did not make it to the list for one >> reason or another, so I resent it) >> >> >> > You yourself mentioned his constant anti-zionist rants. Anti-Zionism >> > = Anti-Jew = Racism. I mentioned it earlier, but perhaps you were too >> > dim to notice. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In [email protected], "Julius No" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > So, you avoided answering your claim Alex is a Racist or is anti >> > Jewish. >> > > >> > > I see. You do what you claim alex is doing. >> > > >> > > I see very well. >> > > >> > > >> > > -- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > No, it's not censorship. It's deciding what will or won't be >> > > > available on thier own property. The stupid people who wish to >> visit >> > > > these horribly offensive websites, can seek internet access >> elsewhere. >> > > > >> > > > For the record.... anti-zionist = anti-jewish. Are there a > random >> > > > few self-hating Jews in a tiny minority who oppose zionism? >> Sure, but >> > > > you can find people like this in any group. There are people > in the >> > > > Libertarian Party who oppose libertarianism. People like Bruce >> Cohen, >> > > > Art Tuma, Brian Holtz, Aaron Star, etc. These sorts don't > matter. >> > > > >> > > > His websites have nothing remotely resembling the truth. They are >> > > > filled with hate, stupidity, lies, hypocricy, and baseless >> conspiracy >> > > > theories. The American Free Press is run by former members of the >> > > > American Nazi party, bikers, etc. >> > > > >> > > > They are all worthless and so are those who consider anything from >> > > > them to be anything other than pure trash. >> > > > >> > > > If the government said you couldn't visit those websites, I'd be >> > > > fighting along side you. You have every right to be stupid. But >> > > > since it's a private company preventing offensive materials from >> being >> > > > available on their own network, all libertarians should support >> their >> > > > right to do it. You don't have a RIGHT to visit these websites on >> > > > THEIR network. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], "Julius No" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I'm very happy about this. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Every one of those websites are bullshit propaganda machines >> > > spreading >> > > > > > outright lies, conspiracy theories, and anti-Jewish > racism. >> > > > > >> > > > > You care to offer proof of Alex Jones anti-Jewish racism? >> > > > > >> > > > > I would agree Jones is anti-Tyranny, he is a bit loose with >> facts at >> > > > > times and is his own worst enemy as a result. That said, He does >> > stick >> > > > > it to statists af all flavors, be they Neocons, Zionists, and >> > Statist >> > > > > Demopublicans of all stripes. >> > > > > >> > > > > Have you listened to him at all this last year? His interview of >> > Paul >> > > > > Craig Roberts and many other middle of the road public >> servants this >> > > > > year make him sound more like Dan Rather, Mumbles, or Ted > Koppel. >> > > > > >> > > > > I suspect the attack dogs at the State Dept. have been > pressuring >> > > > > corporate media to squelch Jones because Alex is learning how to >> > > > > mellow, and work with more mainstream people. He is growing his >> > > > > listener base every month. >> > > > > >> > > > > Paul, You sound Jealous to me. >> > > > > >> > > > > > As far as this censoring free speech.. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Time Warner owns the switches, wires, and other >> infrastructure on >> > > > > > their own network. If they want to block access to certain >> > websites >> > > > > > through THEIR network, it's not a violation of free speech. >> > People >> > > > > > who are stupid enough to want to visit those sites can find >> > > > another ISP. >> > > > > >> > > > > If I had an ISP who blocked any content out on the www, I >> would dump >> > > > > them in a New York minute. >> > > > > >> > > > > Content blocking sure as hell is censorship. When a business >> offers >> > > > > access to the www, you are not told it is subject to control >> by some >> > > > > hairbrained Neoconnazi at the State Dept. >> > > > > >> > > > > You want censorship Paul? Why don't you pitch your tent with the >> > > > > mullahs in Egypt, or Singapore? >> > > > > >> > > > > Is that the kind of happy you want for all americans? >> > > > > >> > > > > Freedom is messy. Live it. Deal with it. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. 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