It is impossible to separate the two. Anan ----- Original Message ----- From: gclark809 To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:06 AM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the Authoritarian/Libertarian kinds
Spooner did not say there should not be law. Law and legislation are not the same things. --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I also think that ideally there should be no laws. But no laws society will be eventually abused and exploited by the bullies and crooks. Then you will need laws for protection. And back to the square one. > Anna > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: gclark809 > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:41 PM > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the Authoritarian/Libertarian kinds > > > Who needs legislation? I refer you to Lysander Spooner's > essay "Natural Law." > > http://www.lysanderspooner.org/bib_new.htm > > "NATURAL LAW; OR THE SCIENCE OF JUSTICE: > > A TREATISE ON NATURAL LAW, NATURAL JUSTICE, > NATURAL RIGHTS, NATURAL LIBERTY, AND > NATURAL SOCIETY; SHOWING THAT > ALL LEGISLATION WHATSOEVER IS AN ABSURDITY, > A USURPATION, AND A CRIME. > > PART FIRST. > BY LYSANDER SPOONER > _________ > BOSTON: > A. WILLIAMS & CO., > 283 Washington Street > 1882. > > > -------------------------------- > PART FIRST. > > CHAPTER 1. > > THE SCIENCE OF JUSTICE. > > Section I. > > The science of mine and thine --- the science of justice --- is the > science of all human rights; of all a man's rights of person and > property; of all his rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of > happiness. > > It is the science which alone can tell any man what he can, and > cannot, do; what he can, and cannot, have; what he can, and cannot, > say, without infringing the rights of any other person. > > It is the science of peace; and the only science of peace; since it > is the science which alone can tell us on what conditions mankind can > live in peace, or ought to live in peace, with each other. > > These conditions are simply these: viz., first, that each man shall > do, towards every other, all that justice requires him to do; as, for > example, that he shall pay his debts, that he shall return borrowed > or stolen property to its owner, and that he shall make reparation > for any injury he may have done to the person or property of another. > > The second condition is, that each man shall abstain from doing so > another, anything which justice forbids him to do; as, [*6] for > example, that he shall abstain from committing theft, robbery, arson, > murder, or any other crime against the person or property of another. > > So long as these conditions are fulfilled, men are at peace, and > ought to remain at peace, with each other. But when either of these > conditions is violated, men are at war. And they must necessarily > remain at war until justice is re-established. > > Through all time, so far as history informs us, wherever mankind have > attempted to live in peace with each other, both the natural > instincts, and the collective wisdom of the human race, have > acknowledged and prescribed, as an indispensable condition, obedience > to this one only universal obligation: viz., that each should live > honestly towards every other. > > The ancient maxim makes the sum of a man's legal duty to his fellow > men to be simply this: "To live honestly, to hurt no one, to give to > every one his due." > > This entire maxim is really expressed in the single words, to live > honestly; since to live honestly is to hurt no one, and give to every > one his due." > > A dozen or so pages later, Spooner concludes: > > "What, then, is legislation? It is an assumption by one man, or body > of men, of absolute, irresponsible dominion over all other men whom > they call subject to their power. It is the assumption by one man, or > body of men, of a right to subject all other men to their will and > their service. It is the assumption by one man, or body of men, of a > right to abolish outright all the natural rights, all the natural > liberty of all other men; to make all other men their slaves; to > arbitrarily dictate to all other men what they may, and may not, do; > what they may, and may not, have; what they may, and may not, be. It > is, in short, the assumption of a right to banish the principle of > human rights, the principle of justice itself, from off the earth, > and set up their own personal will, pleasure, and interest in its > place. All this, and nothing less, is involved in the very idea that > there can be any such thing as human legislation that is obligatory > upon those upon whom it is imposed." > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Yes, but once you start enacting laws, you put people in charge. > Whether it is one huge government, or a small board, it still is > subject to corruption. Then only money speaks. Justice of course is > gone. > > This is why I think that the times have come where people should > vote for MAC. > > Anna > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Terry L Parker > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:22 PM > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the > Authoritarian/Libertarian kinds > > > > > > Wouldn't it be better to radically decentralize power? > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I want an objective, but emphatic computer in charge. Of > course, > > there are dangers too, but less than with humans. > > > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: mark robert > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:11 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the > > Authoritarian/Libertarian kinds > > > > > > > > > Didn't you yourself just state that humans will never be able > to > > > govern humans? ("I see no hope in humans governed by humans".) > > > Now you want someone in charge. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anna > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 3:20 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the > > > Authoritarian/Libertarian kinds > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, voluntary. Who will be in charge? > > > > > > Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government > strategy > > > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---- > ---- > > ---------- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms > > of Service. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---- > ---- > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > ---------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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