Mark, while MORAL values of 'good/bad' can only be attributed to 'persons' one can still evaluate non-persons as being 'good/bad' PRAGMATICALLY for various 'uses'
You and I pragmatically value capitalism that is consistent to UNIVERSAL libertarianism as good for economic progress. But, there may be occasions when economic progress is not as important as something else; say donating to church perhaps. So, while a TOTALLY 'free market' capitalism allows for things like 'Murder Inc' UNIVERSALIZED libertarianism would not. Something may be 'judged' as being 'good/bad' PRAGMATICALLY for a given use, but it's the free will conscious 'choice' made by a 'person' to which MORAL 'judgement' of 'good/bad' is exclusive. 'Morality' is only attributable to 'persons' Btw, as to your fascism* request: it may be 'good' for people who violate the libertarian physical aggression truce in the form of containment (prison?) :) * 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control at http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=fascism -Terry Liberty Parker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, > > > > Now, since you've erased the line between human behavior and > inanimate objects, I'm even more confused about what should and > shouldn't be called good or bad. If I'm reading you correctly, > the only thing that should be called "bad" is aggressive human > behavior, and nothing can be called "good". If the latter is > incorrect, tell me something you think is good. > > > > IMO, things don't have to preclude occasional harm/abuse to be > deserving of "good" labels. I say hammers are good, even though > I'm sure they've been responsible for many sore thumbs and some > murdered people. Unless you are talking about things like torture > chambers and big governments, the benefits of a tool usually > outweighs its disadvantages. Or maybe not; but in any case, we > can use our intelligence to do the sorting and make accurate use > of "good" and "bad". > > > > I'll accept your mission. I think can see both good and bad > potential in each. But. I'm not sure murder-for-hire could fall > under free-market capitalism, since murder would not be a free > market. I see few-to-no "bad" (relative to "worse" systems) > things coming from free-market capitalism. So why should I not > call free-market capitalism "good"? Let's turn this around a bit > and throw fascism into the pot. I can't see a whole lot of > potential good coming from it. Can you? > > > > Maybe I can address the core of your reasoning: personal > responsibility. I see most attempts to duck it as scapegoating, > which consists of falsely labeling something as bad ("the bad > booze/drug made me do it"). I am having a hard time seeing how > one would duck personal responsibility by falsely labeling > something as good. Maybe you could give an example. I submit that > your goal could be better reached by exposing such "bad" labels > as false, since false "good calling" would seem to be less the > culprit (far less common). > > > > -Mark > > > > _____ > > > > Mark, that cpaitalism 'is usually life-supporting without > a non-consensual victim)' does NOT preclude its being used > in harmful (bad) ways which murder non-consensuals, too :( > > Capitalism, socialism, communalism, individualism, collectivism > and so on, are all ways that persons can interact. They can > be 'good' or 'bad' means (tools) for interaction depending > on how 'persons' decide to use them. But, responsibiltiy for > doing 'good' or 'bad' can NOT be exported away from the 'person' > who acts. > > Persons can use capitalism as a means for doing good OR bad! > > Jim, er... I mean Mark, your mission, if decide to accept it: > > As an exersize, try to imagine and describe implementations > of capitalism, socialism, communalism, individualism, > collectivism > and so on, with EACH employed as a means (tool) for BOTH 'good' > and 'bad' ends. > > as usual, the non-thinkers will disavow this effort > > and this e-mail will self-destruct in five minutes :) > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > Please read what I wrote in > What's at the Heart of What Libertarians are Selling? > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30419 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ` ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/KlSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
