If this were the case, we could never have government because everyone would be stealing from each other, raping each other, murdering each other, etc. The "potential" for evil is in everyone, but so is the "potential" for good, and in all but a relatively few cases people choose the latter.
Mark, this is exactly the case we have now with this government, so why to deny it? Who do you think tortures and rapes people in in Iraq. Some psychopaths? No, the decent people. Our sons and daughters. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 2:01 AM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... Speaking of short-sighted, Anna accuses others of her own folly. Libertarians don't promise paradise, or utopia. All we say is more freedom is better than less freedom. Some people will be poor, some will be sick, some will need help and these people will have to rely on voluntary charity. If they can't find it, they could die. It would be sad, but it would be their own fault for not acting responsibly and they would serve as an example to others not to make that mistake. A totally unrestricted free-market completely unhampered by government regulations IS ideal and it does not create any inequalities and would not prevent anything from existing. Your claims of such are entirely false. Capitalism doesn't create inequality. Birth does that. Some poeple overcome their misfortune, and others don't. In either case, it's not unfair, and it's not wrong. You mention human psychology, yet you have no understanding of it. You laughingly claim that humans are inheriently evil and just looking for the chance to screw over other people without getting caught. If this were the case, we could never have government because everyone would be stealing from each other, raping each other, murdering each other, etc. The "potential" for evil is in everyone, but so is the "potential" for good, and in all but a relatively few cases people choose the latter. The fact is the natural state of people is to be good and not to steal from each other. There are always a few bad apples in every bushel though. They are not the norm. They are an anomoly. In a libertarian society they would dealt with appropriately. But this does NOT require a system of government funded welare as you falsely claim. You have absolutely NOTHING to back any of your argument. You are just making baseless claim after claim without regard for the truth. --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mark, no - > you just do not understand the point I am trying here to make. All theories usually fail because they do not take into consideration human psychology. > While a free market capitalistic society where people decide about the fruits of their work sounds like an ideal model, nevertheless it creates huge inequalities which as a consequence will not allow the system to function as planned. Where is inequality, there is potential for violence . No society can be a success if it is plagued by riots and crime. The only solution would be to preventatively pacify the potential troublemakers, and this requires a system of welfare and other social services, which are not exactly fitting into a free social model as proposed. > Your shortsightedness is understandable though. You are idealist who thinks that to have a paradise, all it takes is to make people free to earn money and enjoy it. You do not take into consideration the jealousy and greed of those who have less, but believe should have more. To keep the troublesome elements in order, the system would have to allow for expansion of militia powers. The more militia, the more potential for corruption. There will be always someone who has more money than you to pay to enforce his own way over yours. To have a regime in order to have a minority to enjoy the fruits of their labor is a moral suicide. > It is not true that humans are inherently good, rather they are good unless they see an opportunity to profit by being bad. Being bad can also bring well earned profit. It is only a moral issue how it was earned. As I have read somewhere, many Mafioso consider themselves to be the honest capitalists. > Who do you think tortures people in Iraq and elsewhere, some demons? No, the honest good people. A potential for evil is in every man and given an opportunity, it will blossom. Inequalities create such opportunity. > Do you see a way out? > > Anna > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mark robert > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:25 PM > Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > Anna, > > > > When your points are refuted, you reply as below. How > contradictory! If there ever was an ideal-society theory that > failed, it was the one you generally persist in defending. > > > > -Mark > > > > _____ > > > > It is, in ideal society. But a theory even the best, never works > the same in real life. > Anna > > > _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government strategy Libertarian party E government procurement ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. b.. 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