Terry, are you talking about free will? Morals are human invention which serve to protect oneself from a possible harm from others. They cannot be objective as they serve the subjective self preservation agenda. When I kill an ant, I violate ant's rights, but preserve mine. Morals are always selfish. There is no free Will outside an individual ability to Agree or to Negate a choice offered by the circumstances. Of course, even then we may not be able to change anything, but at least we can make a 'moral' choice. Since it is illogical to claim a limited free will, I must say that there is no free will, period. Nevertheless, in physical universe altruism seems to be well established. When electrons wait in line to absorb a photon and jump a level, nobody is pushing, but sometimes a place is offered to a more needy electron. For some reason, jumping up a level and becoming "alive" is important in microworld of particles. So, perhaps NO HARM law should embrace all life, born and unborn. But I doubt that humans are advanced enough to understand it, or practice. This would then require that we show respect for animals and plants and stop killing them. Since I believe that violence is in a great measure caused by our carnivorous habits, I sure am for it. But I am only one of the very few people who think like this. Anna
----- Original Message ----- From: Terry L Parker To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:13 PM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond Anna, better than what; conscious volition? If by saying the word 'person' we are identifying an entity with the property of rights/duties capability, how can you leave out conscious volition and still have moral accountability Do you not believe that it is required for free moral agency? -Terry Liberty Parker Please see what I wrote in 'Your Freedom and the Rights of Others' at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/22990 --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, a better defintion is that personality is an individual map of consciousness. > Anna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry L Parker > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:17 PM > Subject: [Libertarian] PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond > > > It's intellectually and spiritually lazy > to default to a comfortable prejudice > shared by one's associates! > > The term 'personhood' refers to the 'property' > of being able to have rights & duties (obligations) > Human Beings are human lifeforms with 'personhood' > for example. > > Historically, we've been too quick to discount > personhood when doing so was immoral; > for example, slavery (person discounted to > another person's property) Determination > of 'personhood' impacts not only the > contemporary human abortion issue but also > the morality of other life form encounters to come. > > The intellectual & spiritual 'homework' > yet to be done by many, is to develop > a working criteria for who (or what) > gets to be considered a person AND why. > If you want that criteria to be > generally acknowledged it has to be > as rational and objective as possible. > > Here are *my* 'tentative' COMBINED criteria for > who or what gets to be regarded as a person: > > sentience- ability to consider essential > information about one's environment > (surroundings, situation and so on) > > agency- power to act in that environment > > conscious volition- free will to intervene between > stimulus and response by making meaningful choices; > without which one can not be 'responsible' for > one's actions that interface with other persons > > Imo, 'personhood' is about individual sovereigns > (whose 'domains' are their own bodies and > justly held possessions) being free moral agents; > which still leaves room for acts of compassion :) > > Domains http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30419 > > Morals http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/37899 > > > There are three essential areas of moral concern about human abortion: > > 1. Personhood- At what point do rights and obligations accrue > to the developing individual? > > The spectrum of opinion is from the moment of conception > (spiritual, before physical zygote) thru physical gestation > to birth and a few years beyond (human infanticide is actually > NOT regarded as murder in some societies) > > 2. Obligation- If the developing individual is deemed a 'person' > what, if any, duty to that person exists, to provide support? > > No person has an 'automatic' claim on the resources of another > person to provide them with support. But, did voluntary action > by the 'host' person create an obligation to the 'dependent' person? > > 3. Fatal Eviction- If the 'host' person has a right to deny > support to the 'dependent' person, does the 'host' person's > right to 'evict' the 'dependent' person include doing so in > such a way that is fatal to said dependent? > > People of sincere conscience can be found on all sides of these > three concerns. > > > 'The unexamined life is not worth living' > Socrates, in Plato, Dialogues, Apology > Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC) > at http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24198.html > > Please also enter the word consciousness at http://www.Google.com > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > see: 'Your Freedom and the Rigths of Others' > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/22990 > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government strategy > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! 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