Paul, just how much do you know about the early libertarian political movement in the US?
Do you believe the libertarian movement was founded in 1971 in David Nolan's living room in Colorado? Do you believe the libertarian movement did not exist before December, 1971? Have you ever heard of the names Roger MacBride, Jerome Tuccille, Jim Turney, Don Ernsberger, Clifford Thies, Don Meinhausen, Dana Rohrabacher, Karl Hess, and Barry Goldwater? Who was the very first person to run for public office avowing 'libertarian' public policy in the history of the US, and what party label did he run under? Who was Leonard Reed? What was the very first full-time 'libertarian' publication in the US, and when was it first published? Hint: It wasn't Libertarian Party News. --- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So you say and the veracity of your claims is questionable at best. > It's widely known as the NOLAN chart and the man it's named after > David Nolan agrees that it was NEVER used to determine who is or isn't > a libertarian and it was only used as an outreach tool to find out who > had libertarian leanings so we would know which people of those were > actually being consistent in their libertarianism....which is determined by nothing other than the NAP. > > > --- In [email protected], "Eric Dondero Rittberg" > <ericdondero@> wrote: > > > > > > In the interests of libertarian history. Dave Nolan DID NOT > > invent the Nolan Chart. It was invented by Leonard Reed of FEE way > > back in 1959. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote: > > > > > > You have no libertarian rank to pull. The only thing you're > > pulling > > > is your pud. > > > > > > LIBERTARIANISM IS NOT DETERMINED BY THE NOLAN CHART!!! The > > creator of > > > the chart (David Nolan) agrees with me. The Nolan chart merely > > > determines who has libertarian leanings, not who is or isn't > > actually > > > libertarian. That is determined by the NAP alone. > > > > > > Libertarianism is not determined by membership in the L.P. > > > > > > In fact many in the LP are far from being consistent in their > > libertarianism, like Bruce Cohen, Aaron Star, Art Tuma, Sandor > > Woren, Kevin Takenaga, Mark Johnson, Willard Michlin, etc. > > > > > > Your argument that half the party membership didn't sign the > > pledge is > > > laughable, baseless, and entirely false much like most of your > > > so-called arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Eric Dondero Rittberg" > > > <ericdondero@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Guess I'm going to have to pull some Libertarian rank on you > > Paul, > > > > being a Veteran of the libertarian movement since 1985. > > > > > > > > Yes, IT IS MOST CERTAINLY THE NOLAN CHART (Better to call it the > > New > > > > Political Spectrum), that determines whether or not someone's > > stance > > > > favors libertarianism. > > > > > > > > Membership in the LP indicates very little, since the vast > > majority > > > > of libertarianism's supporters are not affiliated with the LP. > > > > > > > > Look at the Cato institute guys. You think any of them are > > > > affiliated with the Libertarian Party? > > > > > > > > How about Reason? > > > > > > > > Hardly any of them have LP membership. > > > > > > > > The libertarian movement is far more vast than simply the few > > > > thousand members who have joined the LP. > > > > > > > > Ironically, I'd argue probably half of the current LP members > > never > > > > even signed the pledge. It's been my experience, the LP is much > > > > more interested in getting the $25.00 dues than it is someone > > > > signing the bottom of a card. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The pledge is most certainly not "silly". It's what makes us > > > > better > > > > > than the Republicans. It means we haven't sold out our > > principles > > > > and > > > > > sold our souls like the Republicans. > > > > > > > > > > The Nolan chart does not determine who is or isn't > > libertarian. It > > > > > never has and it never will. Nothing other than the N.A.P. > > > > determines > > > > > whether or not someone is advocating actual libertarianism or > > just > > > > has > > > > > libertarian leanings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Eric Dondero Rittberg" > > > > > <ericdondero@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, sooo. What is your point. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that you want to force everyone in the > > > > libertarian > > > > > > movement to sign some silly pledge and worship at the alter > > or > > > > > > gravestone of Murray Rothbard? > > > > > > > > > > > > If the "fiscally conservative/socially tolerant" moniker > > were so > > > > > > meaningless, than why is it that the Libertarian Party > > itself > > > > > > invented the phrase in the 1980s? I remember LP bumper > > stickers > > > > > > saying precisely that. My favorite one of all time: "Vote > > > > > > Libertarian; We're Pro-Choice on Everything." > > > > > > > > > > > > Didn't say: "Vote Libertarian: We want to Abolish > > Government." > > > > > > > > > > > > I was attracted to the LP precisely because the Party was > > > > basically > > > > > > Conservatives who were Pro-Choice, not becuase I wanted to > > > > abolish > > > > > > government. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "steven linnabary" > > > > > > <linnabary51@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Eric Dondero Rittberg" <ericdondero@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Steven, that is precisely the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the principles? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say allegiance to some pledge hoisted upon the LP in > > the > > > > 1970s > > > > > > by > > > > > > > Rothbard, Raimondo and the Radical Caucus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say, a basic belief in "fiscaly conservatism and social > > > > > > tolerance." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody owns the term "libertarian." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are of course correct that nobody owns the label > > > > > > of "libertarian". And > > > > > > > everybody so it seems wants to be associated with > > libertarian > > > > > > ideals, such > > > > > > > as Bill Clinton's claim of being libertarian. There is > > even a > > > > > > socialistic > > > > > > > democrat (I know that is redundant) in California that is > > > > running > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > "libertarian democrat". Weird. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Likewise, nobody "owns" the democrat or republican > > moniker. > > > > > > Afterall, there > > > > > > > is absolutely nothing democratic about the democrat > > party. > > > > And the > > > > > > > republicans have to share names and ideals with such > > groups as > > > > > > Irish > > > > > > > Republican Army and the Iraq Republican Guard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the "fiscal conservative and social tolerance" belief > > is > > > > > > meaningless > > > > > > > when you consider that Kerry could be argued to be more > > > > fiscally > > > > > > > conservative and socially tolerant than Bush. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PEACE > > > > > > > Steven R. Linnabary, Treasurer > > > > > > > Franklin County Libertarian Party > > > > > > > (614) 891-8841 > > > > > > > P.O.Box#115; Blacklick, OH 43004-0115 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "When you make peaceful revolution impossible, you make > > > > violent > > > > > > revolution > > > > > > > inevitable" John F. Kennedy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
