in having this forum :)
On the matter of biological distinction between pre/post birth, I see
nothing in these distinctions that makes a meaningful difference to
the personhood element of 'agency' The critter is STILL totally
incapable of providing itself with water, food, shelter and so on.
For this aspect it does not matter that this dependent creature's
life support is provided by one intimate host or a million who are
less intimate.
For the benefit of those coming late to this,
here are *my* 'tentative' COMBINED criteria for
who or what gets to be regarded as a person:
sentience- ability to consider essential
information about one's environment
(surroundings, situation and so on)
agency- power to act in one's environment
conscious volition- free will to intervene between
stimulus and response by making meaningful choices;
without which one can not be 'responsible' for
one's actions that interface with other persons
Imo, 'personhood' is about individual sovereigns
(whose 'domains' are their own bodies and
justly held possessions) being free moral agents;
which still leaves room for acts of compassion :)
Domains http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30419
Morals http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/37899
There are three essential areas of moral concern about human abortion:
1. Personhood- At what point do rights and obligations accrue to a
developing individual?
The spectrum of opinion is from the moment of conception
(spiritual, before physical zygote) thru physical gestation to birth
and a few years beyond (human infanticide is actually NOT regarded as
murder in some societies)
2. Obligation- If a developing individual is deemed a 'person'
what, if any, duty to that person exists, to provide support?
No person has an 'automatic' claim on the resources of another
person to provide them with support. But, did voluntary action
by the 'host' person create an obligation to the 'dependent' person?
3. Fatal Eviction- If a 'host' person has a right to deny support
to a 'dependent' person, does said 'host' person's right to 'evict'
the 'dependent' person include doing so in such a way that is fatal
to said dependent?
People of sincere conscience can be found on all sides of these three
concerns.
'The unexamined life is not worth living'
Socrates, in Plato, Dialogues, Apology
Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC)
at http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24198.html
Please also enter the word consciousness at http://www.Google.com
-Terry Liberty Parker
see: 'Your Freedom and the Rigths of Others'
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/22990
--- In [email protected], "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Terry,
>
> I am simply recognizing a clear biological distinction. It seems
> an important one, at least in biological terms, at least to me.
> And I think biological traits are entirely relevant to the topic
> of rights. In fact, they are responsible for accruing your
> criteria for personhood.
>
> [Terry and Tom, et al,
> I'd like to say how much I appreciate participating in this
> thread. I might often seem bullheaded, but what I am actually
> doing is getting myself a very good education about a very
> specific topic - the quality of which I could probably get
> nowhere else (at least around here).]
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> ************
> {American jurors have complete Constitutional authority to vote
> "not guilty" based on nothing more than a disagreement with the
> case, no matter the evidence - despite the judge's instructions.
> There is absolutely no obligation to vote "guilty" to arrive at a
> unanimous verdict. Get on a jury, stand your ground, and fulfill
> its other main purpose: to counteract abusive government and
> unjust lawsuits.
> See www.fija.org
> [Please adopt this as your own signature.] }
>
> --------------
>
>
> Mark, so what; it's STILL 100% dependent on someone other than
> itself
> for life support (water, food and so on)
>
> -Terry Liberty Parker
> PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond
> at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/48351
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <colowe@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Terry,
> >
> > I see this huge jump in independence as relevant to your
> criteria
> > by being the cause. The reduction in dependence is both
> > qualitative and quantitative; even though babies are still
> > dependant on people, they are no longer 100% dependent on one
> > person.
> >
> > -Mark
> >
>
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