Terry, I do not think you want that. I was speaking about Mark. BUT...I do apologize for allowing myself to give that impression. I am a firm believer in the idea that I am responsible for everything I think and say and do...and nothing else. In this case, I have offended you without meaning to, and that was insensitive and mean spirited of me. I am sorry.
On 6/27/06, terry12622000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I suspect that Mark is far from believing there are one size fits all > answers even his. If he does think that he is wrong, solutions in > urban areas may not work in deeply rural areas. But you still have > not answer my question. How do you want the government to pay its > debt? Excuse me I'm still a bit POed because you said I want the > those good people to starve and because Terry Parker will not let me > call you bad names lol. Hey my mothers mother mother was three > quarter Cherokee her mom was half her dad full, her full blooded dad > died, her half blooded mother married a white man and ran all the > kids off from home except the baby. My great grandmothers mother and > her mother's white husband sound a bit like you. No not really like > you I suspect So how you like that John being called something your > not, hey? I'm waiting on an apolgy from you for write I want those > good people to go hungry.--- In > [email protected]<Libertarian%40yahoogroups.com>, > "John > > Stroebel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > No Mark, you are playing games with words. > > > > I never said that this depressed AMBITION. Of COURSE it does. > > > > I replied to your question about aid depressing the economy of the > AREA and > > of the people on the reservation. > > > > Aid has never hurt the economy of this area because the economy of > this area > > was NEVER good to BEGIN WITH. These people were only settled here > because no > > one ELSE wanted it. > > > > You seem to believe that your theory is a one size tits all. It is > not. You > > seem to think it works in every situation. It works FINE in Newark > NJ. You > > make it difficult to obtain aid for any period of time and people > will sweep > > streets if they have to, right? In the Southwest, especially > southeastern > > Utah, there ARE no street sweeping jobs. Even the most menial work > is > > already claimed my a tightly woven group of LDS...Later Day > > Saints...Mormons. > > > > Picture this Mark...Brigham Young believed to be a prophet. He > sends a few > > hundred Mormons down to the southeast corner of Utah where there > are no > > roads, where the railroad NEVER reached, where there is not enough > water to > > live on. They are sent so that, when he discusses terms for > statehood, he > > can claim that this area is a settled part of Utah and not Colorado > NM or > > Az. > > They arrive, and have an almost impossible job of farming and > ranching. In > > the MEAN TIME the Ute live pretty well, as they have done > traditionally for > > hundreds of years. The Mormons break their backs shaping this place > into > > something that will support them. > > Jump to the future...the Ute are claiming areas as traditional > lands...areas > > along the San Juan River that the Mormons want. The 'Posey War (Ute > War) > > breaks out and the Ute are forced onto this piece of ground no one > wants and > > confined there. This is in 1926, give or take a few years. > > The Mormons never prosper, they survive. They work decades to build > a town > > of a little over 4000, the largest in San Juan County. This is > Blanding. > > Every resource they can find to exploit they take. The Ute sit on > their > > reservation, prevented from leaving by prejudice, lack of public > > transportation and no where to go. They are continuously > discriminated > > against. Instead, every penny the Federal Gov't allots for their > education, > > for improvements on the reservation, for road construction is used > to the > > benefit of Blanding residents first. > > > > This area was depressed from day one for the Ute. Thus, your desire > to force > > them into the 'one size fits all' theory does not apply. If these > people are > > ever going to succeed, as they WISH to, the answer is in education. > > > > Your questions about aid in general to all Native Americans...I do > not think > > ANY PHILOSOPHY will work for ALL of ANY people. We are the USA. It > is > > obscene to allow people to starve over a principal. We need to help > as help > > is needed, and along with help in financial ways, help with > volunteers and > > opportunity is needed. A person can not build a business when there > is no > > market, when there are no resources, when most can not even balance > a > > checkbook let alone run a small company. > > On 6/27/06, mark robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > > > You disagree that aid plays any role in depressing ambition to > > > develop business in this area. (Inversely stated: you believe aid > > > has never hurt the economy of this area one bit.) But do you also > > > disagree that aid plays a role in depressing ambition to develop > > > business in general? I am curious about your general philosophy > > > for other areas (separate from the topic of this reservation). If > > > not, and you agree that aid can depress ambition in other areas, > > > where do you draw the line: on Native American status, or simply > > > on the needs of any area/people (or something else)? > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > PS: I'm sorry; what is "LDS"? > > > > > > > > > ************ > > > {American jurors have complete Constitutional authority to vote > > > "not guilty" based on nothing more than a disagreement with the > > > case, no matter the evidence - despite the judge's instructions. > > > There is absolutely no obligation to vote "guilty" to arrive at a > > > unanimous verdict. Get on a jury, stand your ground, and fulfill > > > its other main purpose: to counteract abusive government and > > > unjust lawsuits. > > > See www.fija.org > > > [Please adopt this as your own signature.] } > > > > > > -------------------- > > > > > > Well, no Mark, I do not. See, again you are making assumptions > > > based on > > > something you *read*. > > > > > > I will give you two points to consider. This area is SO DRY that, > > > between > > > 1910 and 1948 (approx) LDS citizens of Blanding drilled a tunnel > > > through a > > > rock mountain 1 1/2 miles long with picks and dynamite and > > > removed the rock > > > with a mule. This was so the snow melt could travel from one side > > > of a > > > mountain to another, to be used for drinking water. The water > > > runs as a > > > small stream. They did it without pay and provided the equipment. > > > That is > > > how much they needed a stream of water, still used today. > > > > > > The second is that 100% of the businesses, ranches and hay farms > > > are owned > > > my 49% of the people...Caucasian LDS. The remaining 51%, Navajo > > > and Ute, do > > > not own businesses. When they try, they are pushed out. > > > > > > On 6/27/06, mark robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <colowe%40iquest.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Do you agree that you omitted another reason for the economic > > > > depression of the area: the existence of long-term aid > > > (welfare, > > > > treaty, reparations, or what ever name you wish to call it)? Do > > > > you agree that aid plays ANY role in depressing ambition to > > > > develop business? > > > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > ************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ******************************************************************* > > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? > > > > ******************************************************************* > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ > > > > It is time to do something about all this! > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > -- ******************************************************************* Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? ******************************************************************* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ It is time to do something about all this! ******************************************************************* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/KlSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
