John,
Word games? You sure aren't clearing anything up with yours:
"I never said that this depressed AMBITION. Of COURSE it does."
Although I think I know what you are saying, you might want to
proofread a little better, as this is getting complicated enough.
Seriously, I wasn't playing games, only asking about your bigger
philosophy. And I THINK you just agreed that govt aid CAN depress
ambition. It is good that we can agree on this. But you seem to
separate the ambition of a locality from its economy. I would
like to suggest a strong connection.
Anyway, since you agree, I think I've made my point about the
typical consequences of govt aid. And you have made your point
that this is certainly not your typical case, especially since
it's a treaty obligation. So even though the libertarian
principle against social welfare programs is moot on a practical
level here, don't totally discount the possibility that the
typical psychological effect of govt aid is a hidden factor in
the area.
What I like is your energy for educating us in detail about the
situation. You are very informative. Very interesting inside
history about the local mormanism and some mormans.
-Mark
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-------------------
No Mark, you are playing games with words.
I never said that this depressed AMBITION. Of COURSE it does.
I replied to your question about aid depressing the economy of
the AREA and
of the people on the reservation.
Aid has never hurt the economy of this area because the economy
of this area
was NEVER good to BEGIN WITH. These people were only settled here
because no
one ELSE wanted it.
You seem to believe that your theory is a one size tits all. It
is not. You
seem to think it works in every situation. It works FINE in
Newark NJ. You
make it difficult to obtain aid for any period of time and people
will sweep
streets if they have to, right? In the Southwest, especially
southeastern
Utah, there ARE no street sweeping jobs. Even the most menial
work is
already claimed my a tightly woven group of LDS...Later Day
Saints...Mormons.
Picture this Mark...Brigham Young believed to be a prophet. He
sends a few
hundred Mormons down to the southeast corner of Utah where there
are no
roads, where the railroad NEVER reached, where there is not
enough water to
live on. They are sent so that, when he discusses terms for
statehood, he
can claim that this area is a settled part of Utah and not
Colorado NM or
Az.
They arrive, and have an almost impossible job of farming and
ranching. In
the MEAN TIME the Ute live pretty well, as they have done
traditionally for
hundreds of years. The Mormons break their backs shaping this
place into
something that will support them.
Jump to the future...the Ute are claiming areas as traditional
lands...areas
along the San Juan River that the Mormons want. The 'Posey War
(Ute War)
breaks out and the Ute are forced onto this piece of ground no
one wants and
confined there. This is in 1926, give or take a few years.
The Mormons never prosper, they survive. They work decades to
build a town
of a little over 4000, the largest in San Juan County. This is
Blanding.
Every resource they can find to exploit they take. The Ute sit on
their
reservation, prevented from leaving by prejudice, lack of public
transportation and no where to go. They are continuously
discriminated
against. Instead, every penny the Federal Gov't allots for their
education,
for improvements on the reservation, for road construction is
used to the
benefit of Blanding residents first.
This area was depressed from day one for the Ute. Thus, your
desire to force
them into the 'one size fits all' theory does not apply. If these
people are
ever going to succeed, as they WISH to, the answer is in
education.
Your questions about aid in general to all Native Americans...I
do not think
ANY PHILOSOPHY will work for ALL of ANY people. We are the USA.
It is
obscene to allow people to starve over a principal. We need to
help as help
is needed, and along with help in financial ways, help with
volunteers and
opportunity is needed. A person can not build a business when
there is no
market, when there are no resources, when most can not even
balance a
checkbook let alone run a small company.
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