And/or those of us who love Spain, and in particular Barcelona, and hate to see formerly socially tolerant Europe be turned into a Fascist State.
--- In [email protected], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sounds like Spain has a problem, then... > > _____ > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Eric Dondero Rittberg > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Euro-Expert says this Terror Attack "may have > been the Big One" > > > > So Terry, are you saying that it has nothing to do with our culture, > and their hatred for us as a people, and everything to do with our > foreign policy? > > If we just pulled out of every spot on the globe, and became > complete isolationists, do you honestly think at that point the > Radical Muslims would just leave us alone? > > Remember, we would still have satellite TV. They would still be > exposed to our Hollywood movies, Hip Hop music, sexy blondes, and so > forth. Even if we completely pulled out and became isolationist. > > You don't think they'd still hate us for our culture? > > Didn't one of them say a few days ago that they wanted to "re- > establish the Islamic Republic from Iraq to Spain..." > > You willing to just sit back and let Spain fall into the hands of > the Radical Muslims? Maybe the rest of Western Europe, as well? > > Barcelona not a very important city to ya, huh? > > --- In Libertarian@ <mailto:Libertarian%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > wrote: > > > > And now for some context.... > > > > > > USA presence in the Persian Gulf helps extremists to recruit for > the > > holy war > > > > Said US Rep Ron Paul (R) in Congress Sept 25, 2001 > > > > Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy > > which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their > > viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 year ago. We > > ignore this history at our own peril. > > > > The radicals react as some Americans might react if China > dominated > > the Gulf of Mexico and had air bases in Texas and Florida. > Dominating > > the Persian Gulf is not a benign activity. It has consequences. > The > > attack on the USS Cole was a warning we ignored. > > > > Furthermore, our support for secular governments in the moderate > Arab > > countries is interpreted by the radicals as more American control > > over their region than they want. There is no doubt that our > policies > > that are seen by the radicals as favoring one faction over another > in > > the long lasting Middle East conflict add to the distrust and > hatred > > of America. > > > > The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful economic > and > > military force and wield a lot of influence. But this suppressed > > hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans for the > most > > part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have no > > animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our > > policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a few. > > > > And now the innocent suffer. > > > > MoreAt http://www.house. > <http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm> > gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > > > > > Current Wars: Israel / Palestine - Promises and Betrayals > > > > History Channel documentary on how British double-dealing during > WWI > > ignited the conflict between Arab and Jew in the Middle East. > > > > "We must expel Arabs and take their places." > > -- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, > Oxford > > University Press, 1985 > > > > "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land > confiscation, > > and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its > Arab > > population." > > -- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben- > Gurion, > > A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978 > > > > Much more and RealMedia Video internet playback at > > http://johnmccarthy <http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id315.html> > 90066.tripod.com/id315.html > > > > > > > > > > Americans have been drawn into a violent senario in the middle > east. > > > > a FUNDAMENTAL USA Libertarian 'access' point of this issue is the > US > > govt taxpayer subsidy to the state of Israel and others in the > > region. These huge anual subsidies are both a lure and an > enablement > > for the more 'thug' like folk in that part of the world to become > > powerful. As a result, harmful policies abound. > > > > Americans have been made a target as a consequence of US govt > > taxpayer subsidies that make oppressors harder to overthrow and > > reduces resistance options to the point that 'our' innocents can > ALSO > > become the 'collateral damage' of what are percieved to be the > > remaining 'self defense' tactics by 'them' Misunderstandings along > > with a perspective that discounts concerns about 'collateral > damage' > > innocents manifests on all sides of this US govt taxpayer > subsidized > > violence. > > > > see http://www.house. > <http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm> > gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > These are some of the reasons why THE 'consistent libertarian' > > position is to end ALL US govt taxpayer subsidy to ALL middle east > > rulers! > > > > "the Minaret of Freedom Institute is to educate Muslims on the > > importance of liberty and free markets to a good society, while > > educating non-Muslims about the beliefs and contributions of Islam > > and the political realities of conflict between the two cultures" > > MoreAt http://www.minaret. <http://www.minaret.org/> org/ > > > > Live&LetLive.1998.05.02: > > Libertarian national Muslim figure, Dean Ahmad of www.minaret.org > > publishes 'Islam and the Discovery of Freedom' > > on the 50th anniversary of the creation of the modern state of > > Israel; > > and takes live unscreened calls from viewers on this 1 hour TV > show. > > RealMedia Playback > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LL980502.rm> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LL980502.rm > > > > > > FROM: AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > at http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links> > yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > (Due to popular demand, the system is often too busy to respond; > so > > try back often. Right click playbacks to 'save target as...' to > > download selections to your computer for replay later at your > > convenience and as often as you want) > > > > > > Kingdom of Heaven (Download ONLY) > > Ridley Scott ("Gladiator") directed this sweeping epic about a > > blacksmith (Orlando Bloom) who joins the Crusades and tries to > > achieve peace between Muslims and Christians. Liam Neeson, David > > Thewlis, Jeremy Irons, Edward Norton, Eva Green. Cast & Credits: > > Orlando Bloom, Liam Neeson, David Thewlis, Jeremy Irons, Edward > > Norton (2005) > > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/KingdomOfHeaven V> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/KingdomOfHeavenV > H > > .wmv > > > > > > NOTE: if any of these LoRez internet playbacks stimulate your > > interest in getting a clearer copy, please 'Google' that selection > to > > locate a legal source if one is not otherwise given already. > > > > > > PBS: Holy Warriors > > Parts 1&2: This look at the Third Crusade, which found Richard the > > Lionhearted striving to reclaim Christendom's holiest city, > > Jerusalem, from the Muslim leader Saladin, reveals the facts > behind > > the lore, including how Saladin---often portrayed as a barbarian- -- > > was an educated man from a culture more sophisticated than > Richard's. > > Included: comments from author John Gillingham ("Richard I"); Dr. > > Youssef Choueiri (University of Exeter); and Suhail Zakkar, a > > professor at Damacus University. (2005) > > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/HolyWarriors.wm v> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/HolyWarriors.wmv > > > > > > > Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > 3 hour recording picks up just after the first 'Christian' crusade > > takes Jerusalem by invading the heartland of Arab territory > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades.wmv> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades.wmv > > > > HistoryChannel: a. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > part 1 of 2 is two hours of four > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv > > > > HistoryChannel: b. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > part 2 of 2 is two hours of four > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv > > > > > > Lawrence of Arabia (Download ONLY) > > The restored version (almost 4hrs) of David Lean's epic about T.E. > > Lawrence (Peter O'Toole), who led the Arab revolt against the > Turks > > during WWI. Prince Feisal: Alec Guinness. Sherif Ali: Omar Sharif. > > Auda Abu Tayi: Anthony Quinn. Allenby: Jack Hawkins. Turkish Bey: > > Jose Ferrer. Brighton: Anthony Quayle. Dryden: Claude Rains. > (1962) > > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LawrenceOfArabi a> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LawrenceOfArabia > H > > .wmv > > > > Lawrence of Arabia: The Battle for the Arab World (Download ONLY) > > PBS 2hr documentary providing much insight to today's middle east > > turmoil. Biography of T.E. Lawrence (1888-1935), the dashing > British > > officer who fought alongside Arabs in their quest for independence > > from the Ottoman Empire during World War I, and who was > immortalized > > in David Lean's 1962 masterpiece, "Lawrence of Arabia." The real > > Lawrence (seen here in atmospheric re-creations and in Lowell > Thomas > > newsreels) was emotionally troubled (one of the interviewees is a > > psychologist) and he had good reason to be: The Arabs he fought > > beside were being deceived by his British superiors. And one > legacy > > of this duplicity is today's Middle East situation. (2003) > > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LawrenceArabia. w> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/LawrenceArabia.w > m > > v > > > > > > Making `Syriana' > > A look at "Syriana," a 2005 political thriller focusing on > multiple > > levels of the global oil industry. The film stars George Clooney, > > Matt Damon and Jeffrey Wright, and was written and directed by > > Stephen Gaghan, who won a Best Screenplay Oscar for "Traffic." > (2005) > > > http://txliberty. > <http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/MakingSyriana.w m> > dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/MakingSyriana.wm > v > > > > > > > > > > > > FROM: AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > at http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links> > yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > > > (Due to popular demand, the system is often too busy to respond; > so > > try back often. Right click playbacks to 'save target as...' to > > download selections to your computer for replay later at your > > convenience and as often as you want) > > > > > > Featured in AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > Some more recent additions, upgrades or items otherwise of special > > interest; before they are re-distributed to other folders in this > > collection. > > > > > > > > NOTE: if any of these LoRez internet playbacks stimulate your > > interest in getting a clearer copy, please 'Google' that selection > to > > locate a legal source if one is not otherwise given already. > > > > > > > > > > Also watch for more announcements at > > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TerryLiberty/> > yahoo.com/group/TerryLiberty/ > > > > > > > > > > Look for me (especially every Sunday eve) as: > > > > TxLiberty on Yahoo Messenger & MSN Messenger > > > > Terry Liberty Parker on www.Skype.com > > (supports multiple platforms like > > MAC & Linux along with Windows) > > > > and maybe AustinLiberty on AIM > > > > > > > > > > 'PeerCasting' continuously now as 'AustinLibertyInterNet' > > via 'Yellow Pages' at www.PeerCast.org > > > > Distributed networking like www.PeerCast.org may enable people to > > create an alternative to govt licenced & controlled broadcasting. > > That can be useful when promoting things that challenge, or may be > > inconvenient to, established authority :) > > Please test this (at various times as needed) as an audience member > > (or even another 'caster) and let me know of your experience(s). > > > > > > ExploreAt http://www.peercast <http://www.peercast.org/> .org/ > > get a very small self installing program > > then select 'yellow pages' > > to find 'AustinLibertyInterNet' webcasting > > as an experiment by me in 'distributed networking' > > then please let me know of your experience > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via > > AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > at http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links> > yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 > > > > every Sunday 6:30pm (central) to ? > > I host informal discussion > > to which all are welcome > > who want to consider ideas & issues > > of Liberty & Justice for ALL > > in Hickory St Grill at 8th & Congress, Austin TX > > Look for me, MyPicAt http://profiles. > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty> yahoo.com/txliberty > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Libertarian@ <mailto:Libertarian%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, Eric Dondero <ericdondero@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Thwarted plot may have been `the Big One' `Classic al-Qaida' > plan > > biggest in scope, ambition since Sept. 11 Charles Rex > > Arbogast / AP > > > An unidentified traveler deposits her lipstick into a bin with > > other items banned for air travel as she prepares to fly out of > > Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on Thursday. > > > View related photos > > > var hasRelatedPhotos = 'true';if (hasRelatedPhotos=='true') > {var > > vRPL = document.getElementById("viewRelatedPhotosLink");if (vRPL! > > =undefined) vRPL.style.display = "";var vLRPG = > > document.getElementById("linkRelatedPhotos");var vLIRPG = > > document.getElementById("linkImgRelatedPhotos");if (vLRPG) {if > > (vLIRPG) vLIRPG.href=vLRPG.href;}} getCSS("3088867") > > > NBC VIDEO > > > > > > > > > . Terror plot foiled > > > Aug. 10: London police say they foiled a plot to blow up > airliners > > traveling to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage. > > NBC's Rehema Ellis reports. > > > Today show > > > > > > > > > getCSS("3053751") > > > Slide show > > > > > > > > > . Air travel snarled by terror plot > > > European and American travelers face increased airport security > > following a foiled British terror plot. > > > > > > > > > > > > var cssList = new Array(); getCSS("3053751") > > > Related Stories > > > | What's this? > > > . Latest twist in the World Trade Center battle > > > . Talk Transcript: 'World Trade Center' > > > . Terrorism: From Al Qaeda-Plots and Promos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > var cssList = new Array(); getCSS("3053751") > > > Most Popular > > > . Most Viewed . Top Rated . Most E- > > mailed . U.K.: Plot to bomb U.S.-bound planes foiled > > > . Chertoff: Threat `suggestive of an al-Qaida plot' > > > . Swiss bank takes `deposit and forget' to extreme > > > . Passengers deal with heightened security > > > . Thwarted plot may have been `the Big One' > > > . Most viewed on MSNBC.com > > > > > > . BP admits knowledge of corrosion problems > > > . Discoverer of `Van Allen Belts' is dead > > > . Was the BP pipeline problem preventable? > > > . Sludge, lack of testing cited in pipeline failure > > > . Twins tucked into separate beds for first time > > > . Most viewed on MSNBC.com > > > > > > . U.K.: Plot to bomb U.S.-bound planes foiled > > > . Chertoff: Threat `suggestive of an al-Qaida plot' > > > . Organic food: Is it worth the extra money? > > > . Passengers deal with heightened security > > > . Addiction switching: Quit smoking, but binge? > > > . Most viewed on MSNBC.com > > > > > > pop_pushTabBox('boxB_3053751'); > > > > > > > > > > > > News Analysis > > > Updated: less than 1 minute ago > > > function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = > > document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' & n & > > window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D > > (pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt, > > ((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } > UpdateTimeStamp > > ('632908229678800000'); > > > > > > Its scope was ruthlessly ambitious, causing destruction > officials > > say would have been "unimaginable." The alleged plot to take down > > several U.S.-bound planes with liquid explosives appears to be > unlike > > anything the world has seen in years. > > > Counterterrorism officials said Thursday the London plot > appears > > to bear the fingerprints of al-Qaida, and may have been "the Big > One" > > they have been dreading since Sept. 11, 2001, particularly as the > > five-year anniversary of the carnage approaches. > > > More than 20 people have been jailed, terror threat levels > have > > been raised to some of their highest levels, and hundreds of > flights > > have been canceled worldwide. > > > Story continues below ↓ > > > --------------------------------- > > > advertisement ad_dap(250,300,'&PG=NBCMSN&AP=1089'); > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > "The scope or the magnitude of this attack is much larger than > > previous attacks," said Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at > > Singapore's Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies. > > > He added that everything known so far points to involvement by > > Osama bin Laden's terror group. > > > "It is a classic al-Qaida tactic. It is a hallmark of al-Qaida > to > > carry out coordinated, simultaneous attacks, and the aviation > domain > > is certainly known to al-Qaida. They have obvious experience in > > working around that system and extensive knowledge of the aviation > > domain." > > > `International in scope' > > > U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff echoed those > > sentiments, saying the attack "was sophisticated, it had a lot of > > members and it was international in scope." He added that: "It was > in > > some respects suggestive of an al-Qaida plot," but cautioned that > the > > investigation was still under way. > > > There have been dozens of thwarted plots around the world > since > > the Sept. 11 attacks, and several that were murderously > successful. > > Suicide bombers killed 52 people in London on July 7, 2005, 58 in > two > > attacks in Istanbul, Turkey, in 2003, and 202 in Bali in 2002. > > Islamic radicals killed 191 people in Madrid on Mar. 11, 2004, > then > > blew themselves up days later when police were closing in. > > > > > > Click for related content > > > > > > U.K.: Plot to bomb U.S.-bound planes foiled > > > U.S. raises threat level to `red' for first time > > > Passengers deal with heightened security in U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > > While al-Qaida's call for global jihad clearly acted as > > inspiration, there has been no direct evidence that bin Laden or > his > > No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, had advance knowledge of those attacks, > that > > they helped plan them, or that they provided financial or > logistical > > help to those who carried them out. > > > The group's failure to match the destruction it inflicted in > the > > Sept. 11 attacks has led to speculation that a global dragnet that > > has forced bin Laden into hiding and ensnared many of his most > > trusted deputies may have degraded al-Qaida's abilities. > > > Analysts said Thursday that is a theory to be believed only at > > the world's peril. > > > Attempt at 'the Big One'? > > > The airline plan had the potential to dwarf the attacks of > recent > > years - killing hundreds, perhaps thousands. > > > It also appears to have involved far more extensive planning > and > > expertise. > > > Counterterrorism agents have been tracking the alleged > plotters > > for months, and made arrests in London and its suburbs, as well as > > Birmingham. A British police official said the suspects appeared > to > > be "homegrown," though it was not immediately clear if they were > all > > British citizens. getCSS("3053751") > > > In June 1995, U.S. and Filipino authorities > uncovered > > a plot very similar to the one revealed Thursday in the U.K. > > > In that plot, called the "Bojinka Plot," bombs were to be > placed > > aboard 11 jumbo jets and detonated by timing devices as the planes > > flew over the Pacific Ocean, killing an estimated 4,000 people. > > > Most of the jets were to be American carriers and most of the > > dead would have been Americans. > > > The bombs were small, using a Casio watch as a timer and > contact > > lens bottles filled with nitroglycerine. They were to be secreted > > behind the wall panels in the plane's lavatory. > > > The bombs would have been timed to go off over a number of > hours > > to heighten the terror. > > > The plan, also called the "Day of Hate," was conceived by > Ramzi > > Yousef, the mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing, > and > > his uncle, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11. > > > Only a fire in Yousef's Manila apartment thwarted it. Mohammed > > later modified the plan, took it to Osama bin Laden, and it became > > the blueprint for the 9/11 attacks. > > > > > > - Robert Windrem, NBC News Investigative Producer > > > > > > > > > Magnus Ranstorp, a terrorism expert at Sweden's Center for > > Asymmetric Threat Studies who has done extensive research into al- > > Qaida's efforts to recruit in Europe, said the foiled plot in > > Britain "could very well have been an attempt at 'the Big One."' > > > Andrea Nativi, a researcher at the Rome-based Military Center > for > > Strategic Studies, said the London plot resembled that of Sept. > 11, > > 2001, in its ambition and was entirely different in scope from > other > > terror schemes of recent years. > > > "By comparison, the London subway attacks look like child's > > play," he said. "The new element here is their cleverness in > trying > > to overcome the new security systems installed after 2001 ... No > one > > can really expect to pass security checks with explosives in their > > pocket, they had to look for a plan B." > > > `These people are obsessed' > > > Rodolfo Mendoza, a police intelligence official in the > Philippines, > > said the "modus operandi" is the same as al-Qaida has used in the > > past - and he should know. > > > Mendoza was among the law enforcement officers involved in > > thwarting a plot by al-Qaida terror mastermind Ramzi Yousef - this > > one way back in 1995 - to use liquid explosives to blow up a dozen > > airliners as they flew across the Pacific Ocean to U.S. > destinations, > > including Los Angeles, San Francisco, Honolulu and New York. > > > Like al-Qaida's decade-long effort to bring down the World > Trade > > Center in New York, first in 1993 and then, disastrously, in 2001, > > the latest plot to blow up commercial airliners reveals the > group's > > unwavering resolve, Mendoza said. > > > "These people are obsessed," he said. "They will try and try > and > > try again to accomplish their mission." > > > C 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material > > may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Libertarian Republicans > > > > > > Fiscally Conservative, Socially Tolerant & Pro-Defense! > > > > > > Dondero is a US Navy Veteran, former Libertarian Party > National > > Committeeman, fmr. Senior Aide to US Congressman Ron Paul R-TX, > and > > Founder of the Republican Liberty Caucus. > > www.mainstreamlibertarian.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
