Thanks, Paul. That's the kind of information I was hoping to find. It's incredibly disheartening and I hope that it's something Wikipedia will reconsider.
Best, Kathleen On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:55 PM Paul S. Wilson <[email protected]> wrote: > Not "individual practices"; this is an English Wikipedia Policy: > > >Do not use articles from Wikipedia (whether this English Wikipedia or > Wikipedias in other languages) as sources. Also, do not use websites that > mirror Wikipedia content or publications that rely on material from > Wikipedia as sources. Content from a Wikipedia article is not considered > reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources. Confirm that > these sources support the content, then use them directly.[11] (There is > also a risk of circular reference/circular reporting when using a Wikipedia > article or derivative work as a source.) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia_and_sources_that_mirror_or_use_it > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:24 PM Kathleen DeLaurenti > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi all - > > > > Thanks for the responses. Regardless of our individual practices, I > don't see any good coming from Wikipedia positively asserting that it > should "never be cited," and that's the crux of my concern here. > > > > Best, > > > > Kathleen > > > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:17 PM Paul S. Wilson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> I have never considered user-generated content on Wikipedia to be more > than what librarians call a "discovery service". > >> > >> Briefly skimming an article on a subject l may know little about, I > invariably evaluate the sources rather than the text and hit the cited > references. In my 15-year experience, even the weakest and most apparently > biased articles have at least a few refs that lead to citable sources and > larger literature. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM Merrilee Proffitt <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I completely agree with Kathleen. I would assert that it is a lack of > nuance around the nature of information sources and the research task at > hand that has lead educators and others to wholesale "ban" the use of > Wikipedia. > >>> > >>> Whether or not a source can be utilized in a research context depends > on the researcher, and what information they are supporting with the > citation. For my middle school daughter doing some investigation on an > element in the periodic table (as she has been doing this week), the > Wikipedia English article (or any encyclopedia article) is appropriate for > her. For a graduate student in chemistry this would not be appropriate, but > the grad student might (appropriately) cite Wikipedia for some basic > definitional stuff, just as they might cite a dictionary or something > similar. You see Wikipedia utilized appropriately in citations all the time > -- why would we discourage this? > >>> > >>> Having conversations about the veracity of online information is > tough. Wikipedia can be challenging because articles are at various levels > of development. To my mind, this makes it something that those of us > engaged in conversations around information literacy should steer towards, > rather than away from, because a) Wikipedia is widely utilized in a variety > of contexts and b) it is a great teaching tool for talking about when you > can trust information online and when you should steer clear. But saying > "no" to any information source without having a discussion about it seems > lazy. It definitely does not reflect the type of discourse we should be > having, especially now. > >>> > >>> I look forward to more discussion on this topic. > >>> > >>> Merrilee > >>> > >>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:02 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Twitter doesn't facilitate reasoned arguments. I suppose as usual the > >>>> goal was to encourage greater use of the references and other > >>>> meta-content of Wikipedia articles, which are excellent tools for > >>>> critical thinking. > >>>> > >>>> Federico > >>>> > >>>> Kathleen DeLaurenti, 26/09/19 17:55: > >>>> > Hi all - > >>>> > > >>>> > As a librarian who uses and supports Wikipedia, I wanted to bring up > >>>> > some issues around the BuzzFeed article posted today about M-Journal > >>>> > that has led to some messaging from the WikipediaUK twitter account > that > >>>> > I find concerning. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to > >>>> > bring this up, but I wasn't sure where else to reach out. > >>>> > > >>>> > For those who missed, a citation cite is not manufacturing journal > >>>> > articles if a student submits a Wiki article so that it looks like > an > >>>> > "official" citation in their school research papers. > >>>> > > https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/wikipedia-fake-academic-journal?bftw&utm_term=4ldqpfp#4ldqpfp > >>>> > > >>>> > Clearly there are some nefarious potential uses here, but what's > more > >>>> > concerning is that the WikiUK twitter account has come forward > >>>> > forcefully saying that Wikipedia shouldn't be cited in the > literature. > >>>> > Period. > >>>> > https://twitter.com/wikimediauk/status/1177215917534711808 > >>>> > > >>>> > I work very hard to improve the cite through my courses and academic > >>>> > advocacy as do many librarians. It's concern to me to see Wikipedia > >>>> > undermining its own authority in such a public way in what appears > to be > >>>> > a misguided attempt to deflect association with the MJournal site. > >>>> > > >>>> > Would welcome any insight or ideas on how to navigate this > discussion. > >>>> > The entire M-Journal use case exists, imho, because we are still > >>>> > battling for a critical (not blanket acceptance) view of Wiki as a > >>>> > resources, and I find this kind of public statement to be very > damaging > >>>> > to the hard work so many are doing to create a quality information > resource. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Libraries mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Libraries mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Libraries mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libraries mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries > > _______________________________________________ > Libraries mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries >
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