https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172275

--- Comment #43 from Steve Forde <[email protected]> ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #42)
> (In reply to Steve Forde from comment #40)
> > I don't understand this. On the face of it, it worked for a long time, so
> > must have been "maintainable"? If it was "blocking features needed for UI
> > function", what are those new features that make it worth removing all
> > customisation?
> 
> The trigger for the removal was the formation of tab bar groups, like in MS
> Office' ribbon.
> 
> > I'm afraid I don't fully understand how a "user" tab that offers a single
> > customisable toolbar would add much value. It's a small step forwards but
> > still a long way from giving back even the limited customisation we had
> > previously. I can see how multiple configurable toolbars could be used to
> > create a tabbedCompact UI that is very flexible (see comments #31 and #32)
> > but that's not what you seem to be suggesting.
> 
> You're right. But the NBB is not maintained with customizability being a
> significant goal. 
> 
> > Anyway, you have made your decision on this issue. Customisation clearly
> > isn't coming back in any meaningful way. 
> 
> Strong customizability is a feature of the default toolbars+menu interface.
> The NBB's development direction is providing a UI experience similar to MSO
> and OnlyO, for users who are migrating from those applications. There has
> not been significant, or in fact any, user demand for ribbon customization.
> There _has_ been some demand for improving the default layout of the NBB,
> for widget groups, for corner clickable links to dialogs, for better
> labeling etc.
> 
> To have a customizable ribbon, we would need something far beyond what's
> available in today's GUI toolkits. It would involve a large amount of
> effort, much of which will probably be in projects outside LibreOffice. This
> is why there are no apps (that I know of) with customizable ribbons.
> 
> Specifically, to have toggle on/off customization with widget groups
> apparently proved beyond what we can currently achieve with the way the NBB
> is implemented
> 
> > I accept that and I will just have
> > to look for an alternative office suite. It's a shame - I like the
> > LibreOffice project - but it no longer works for me. Best wishes to you.
> 
> That is of course your right, but - AFAIK, there isn't' another office suite
> with a customizable ribbon-like UI. So, perhaps there is something about the
> ordering and choice of widgets in LO right now, that you would change? We
> may not be able to offer customizability, but you might make suggestions for
> improving the defaults.

Thanks for the reply.

Softmaker's NX office suite allows ribbon customisation on Linux. I actually
have a paid subscription to that, but I've been using it less over the last few
months and instead been transitioning to LibreOffice and its open formats. Most
of my important files are now in open formats, which will no doubt be a pain
when I change back to MS formats.

I struggle badly with the main LibreOffice "tabbed" UI. You will no doubt think
this is "trite", but I find it visually messy and hard to get used to after
years of using the much more polished Excel and (latterly) Softmaker and
OnlyOffice. I've just tried it again, and I still find it hard work. 

I had previously tried GroupedBar Compact, which is genuinely innovative. I
even made some suggestions to improve it back in June
(https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172566). But the more I
got into it, the more restricted it felt. Lots of important functions just
aren't available unless you go back to the main menu. I think that could be
improved and have thought about doing the work to come up with more
suggestions, but my time is limited and in any case I thought I had found a
better option.

The "better option" was tabbedCompact, which used less screen space and (to my
eye) was more organised and coherent than the main tabbed UI. The icons were
very small, but I found I could make them bigger and still fit in what I needed
simply by "unticking" the icons I didn't need regularly. Of course, I can't do
that any more.

I would change various default options offered by the tabbedCompact UI. For
example: my main interest is spreadsheets, and in Calc the default Home tab
includes "Merge and Centre Cells"... all of that looooong text is displayed
alongside the icon! It takes up loads of horizontal space. Surely the icon
alone would make more sense for a compact UI?

Similarly, the Home tab includes 4 icons for inserting and deleting rows /
columns. But it also includes 2 "general" icons for rows and columns, both of
which offer a dropdown that includes the option to delete and insert! So why
offer the other 4 icons at all? I "unticked" all of them in the previous
version and it made no difference to me at all, not least because insert and
delete is readily available via a right click after the cell / row has been
selected. That's how every Excel user I have ever worked with over the last 30+
years has inserted and deleted rows and columns.

These changes alone allowed conditional formatting and the 2 icons to add /
remove decimal points to emerge from behind the ">>" icon. I think both are far
more valuable and should be immediately visible to the user.

I could go on, but... enough. Thanks again for the response and I wish all of
the LibreOffice team well.

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