https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #125 from Telesto <[email protected]> --- (In reply to Pedro from comment #121) > (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #110) > You are just inflating the list of required resources to suit your view of > the discussion. > Because quite frankly most of those are not required for a user. You are > spouting what an ideally developed version of a Tabbed UI should look like > from a dev perspective if it was developed from scratch, which would clearly > NOT be the case here. There are lots of different question/aspects to the Tabbed UI bar topic :-). >From is a Tabbed UI needed, to being default, to implementation and budget. Obviously the all topics are entangled. For example: seeing the Tabbed UI as extra, means no resources need to allocated (time, budget). And those resources can be used somewhere else. So related to competition with other issues and the prioritization of those. Also the amount of resources required depends on the complexity of the changes to make the Tabbed UI work. Which again depends on what you want to archive (What should the Tabbed UI be like?) Ideally some proposal should be written regarding to requirements which the Tabbed UI so meet (to be competitive), and translated into technical specifications, making for making a CostEstimate for the framework part. So having something concrete to discuses about. Warning: there is a risk the proposal get rejected and a all for nothing feeling for the ones involved.. The current implementation (framework) has limitations (but I'm only have some notion, not exact details). Say positioning of buttons, theming. The design decisions of the current Tabbed UI are - in my perception - governed by limitations. Those limitations start to bite more and more when adding functionality. At least that's my understanding (but Andreas/Caolan/V Stuart are better informed, I guess). There is pretty big risk that the Tabbed UI will outgrow the current framework. Which means a total refactor of framework might be required. Which means lots of stuff needs to be redone. And with the new framework new possibility's arise, so old design decisions based on limitation need all to be reworked again :-( So I tend to prefer to use the "right" framework from the start; at some point every framework will 'fail'. Instead of using some pre-existing framework which already known for it's limitations. And the framework should ideally support complex stuff seen in other Ribbons. Put in other words, the framework should support to possibility to introduce more advanced actions. If those aren't there from the start is pretty obviously. You start with the fundamentals.. But at some point the end-user (or designers) you want to do more.. and are stuck at death end of the framework is to limited. So before optimizing the Tabbed UI, it's necessary to be sure the frame-working underpinning the Tabbed UI (the engine') can do what it expected to do long-term. If something totally new it's looking into a crystal ball, in this it's more comparing with others. I dislike investing in something which isn't future proof. Which means listing the issues designers/developers ran into already. And comparing Ribbons from other products with the Tabbed UI. To grasp what the framework should capable of doing. Next few approaches should be investigated to the options.. How the "proper" framework would look. Every framework has drawbacks by design (if its costs to build , maintainability, functional limitations). Obviously the choice can be to try to improve current Tabbed UI as far as possible, because the other framework revision taking to long/being to expensive. But this really should be a concisions decision :-). It will come back at you at some point Engineers can often build everything you want, within a reasonable time frame. Budget is one of the biggest constrains if you want to outsource the work. -- I personally less into the Tabbed UI and I don't think it's 'better'. Its simply different. But well I admit that lack of Ribbon/Tabbed UI doesn't help the transition from MSO. Especially if you're accustomed to the Tabbed UI. LibreOffice looks kind of outdated if are using MSO 2007 or later. So the Community might be not growing as fast as it could. And commercially (eco-system partners) might be not the best UI to ship with either. On the other hand, if there where major demand it would have been changed long ago :-). At the point people start to need paying for something the back-off.. The Toolbar UI being good enough. But well the Tabbed UI obviously better for touch screen usage (tablets and such). But unsure where the technology is going. Touchscreens still a thing in 5 or 10 years? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
