On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Michał 'rysiek' Woźniak <[email protected]> wrote: > Dnia poniedziałek, 14 maja 2012 o 15:16:38 Ramana Kumar napisał(a): >> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Michał 'rysiek' Woźniak >> > We could create a *simple* directory protocol (no, LDAP won't do) >> > for finding out people's e-mails, JIDs, etc (if, of course, >> > those people would provide such data); integrate it into >> > available solutions (client-side: Pidgin, mail clients, >> > Diaspora, etc.; server-side: ejabberd, mail servers, Diaspora, >> > etc.) - when providing profile data (like e-mail addr) users >> > could select to make that info available for federated access by >> > other servers and clients. >> >> Are there any existing directory protocols that would serve this >> purpose? > > Not sure, haven't done the research. > >> What's wrong with LDAP? (It has the advantage of being >> already standard.) > > It has the huge disadvantage of being extremely complicated, > cumbersome, difficult to implement and use. We need something much, > much simpler, that can, however, be built upon LDAP. Maybe a subset?
I think a subset of LDAP would be a good starting point. In particular, just using LDAP will confirm whether it really is too complicated and focus our attention on what we would want from a simpler protocol. > >> Are we reinventing FNS (XFN)? > > No. FNS AFAIK was used for naming machines, not keeping human contact > info. > >> If a new simple protocol is required, let's make a short spec of it >> here and now! > > Sure, as soon as I get some minimal sleep... ;) (Or alternatively, pick out the bits of LDAP to use; or maybe I can try to do that based on what we come up with for the simple protocol.) > >> Michał, I hope you will oblige to start on that, or otherwise >> explain a bit more what you mean. > > Yes. I would love to, and I am very happy this seems to be picking up > steam on this list. I will try to do some preliminary specs during the > next few days. Shall we use a pad? > http://pad.telecomix.org/simple-contact-federation Ah, yes, sure! > >> > We could create a website for "leave your proprietary >> > network/service day", hold such a day say once per two months. >> > People could log-in with their proprietary network logins >> > (Facebook/Twitter/Google+) and pledge leaving the network for a >> > libre one (like Diaspora) or at least setting up an account on a >> > libre network on a given day, or when the number of their >> > friends pledging the same reaches a given number. >> >> LibrePlanet, is there anyone here, or do you know of anyone, who >> would be able and willing to design this website? >> Also, to host it? > > I can provide for some minimal hosting, either via my lab or the FLOSS > Foundation here in Poland. > >> I am willing to pay for domain registration and hosting if nobody >> else volunteers, or no organisation can donate it, if there is a >> good design. (Of course, donations would be welcome to help spread >> the cost!) > > I would suggest using an established name for starters. LibrePlanet > seems a great place, but I don't want to impose my ideas on anyone > here. A sub-domain maybe? So what would you call it? > >> > This would obviously be sent to their walls, timelines or >> > whatever it's called in their proprietary social network of >> > choice. their friends would get the message and see that maybe >> > they are not alone in their idea of leaving Facebook. >> > >> > This is obviously just a preliminary idea, it would need to be >> > properly thought through and blueprinted. >> >> I thank you for taking the time to sketch the preliminary idea! It >> sounds great. >> I suggest we keep working out the details on list. > > Indeed, I'd love to see it taking off. > >> > Second idea that I might start realising soon myself is firing up >> > cloud service providers that integrate many libre software >> > services (like XMPP, e-mail, Diaspora, StatusNet, OpenID, >> > Mozilla Sync, ownCloud, etc.) so that people would have a chance >> > of using a *single* service for all their communication needs, >> > while retaining control over their data (using standard, free >> > software projects would mean switching the provider would be >> > much easier than leaving Facebook). >> > >> > >> > These two ideas should for obvious reasons be put into practice >> > about the same time. >> >> Yes. Michał, would you be interested in making a prototype of such >> a service with me? > > In fact, similar service (many integrated services, including > eGroupWare, ownCloud, StatusNet, e-mail, webmail, XMPP, Mozilla Sync) > is already set-up in the lab I run here at Warsaw University of > Technology. It still needs a lot of work to be prime-time ready. > > I am also thinking of either spinning it off as a separate company, or > doing it under the aegis of the Polish FLOSS Foundation. Do you use it? What kind of work is necessary to get it ready? Can I try it out? > >> > > Describe the world where I find out Skype is nonfree and then >> > > [go where] ([why there?]) and [do what] to get a free >> > > replacement, that anyone can easily do. >> > >> > http://podupti.me is just such a place to go for "Facebook >> > replacement". It needs better exposure, and much better >> > information on-site, but it's the right idea. >> >> Presumably it can be advertised on that website for "leave >> proprietary network day". >> What about for Skype replacement? > > I am talking generally, Skype is just one of the building blocks. For > that I would like to see either JID/Jingle or SIP. > >> > Problem is, in my opinion, that we need to refocus. >> > >> > We - the FLOSS Community - are by and large great technicians, >> > programmers, we have the manpower and will to tackle *technical* >> > issues. >> > >> > However, our problems currently are not purely technical; Free >> > Software is often technically superior to proprietary/centralised >> > solutions, yet users still use the proprietary platforms (ICQ/AIM >> > being one of the examples). >> > >> > Why? Reasons are many. Sometimes it's the usability (like with >> > Skype); sometimes it's the network effect - already vast amounts >> > of users use the proprietary solution, so the incentive to use >> > it is much stronger, as the aim is to keep in touch (Skype, >> > Facebook, ICQ/AIM, etc.). >> >> Excellent point. > > Thanks. > >> > These two problems are not easy to solve for us, as we are not >> > that competent in those areas. Especially usability would need >> > new sort of people joining in and helping out - UX designers and >> > the like. This is one of the reasons why I feel that while many >> > things Canonical does are really bad (please, let's not get into >> > a "Ubuntu is Evuhl" flame now, m'kay? ;) ), we are still - as a >> > community - getting a lot of good stuff from the fact they are >> > employing UX designers, for example. >> >> One method might be to spread the ideal of freedom in the Ubuntu >> community, to leverage the existing talent there. >> This might essentially be: promote gNewSense over Ubuntu. But it >> might be more than that. > > It will be hard to promote gNewSense to Ubuntu users. I do not > envision them moving to gNewSense in droves. > > However, we *should* point out blatant mistakes on Ubuntu's part. Like > calling both Skype and Ekiga "Free" in Software Centre. There should > obviously be two different categories, and that is something both easy > to do and high-profile. Point that out where? > >> > Now, the network effect thing is more "tackleable" by us. It's >> > really a question of focusing on creating ways for people to >> > feel that they are in a group. they are connected, easy ways to >> > find other people, etc. Diaspora, as I wrote already, does it >> > well. We should simply move this up on our priority list, so >> > that our techie community would find that important to work on. >> > >> > Specifically, I strongly believe that tackling the network effect >> > problem is more important than Gnash, Google Earth, FLOSS network >> > router drivers. I think it should (after finding a suitable way >> > of describing it) make it to the priority projects list. >> >> FSF, your response? > > I am also extremely interested in FSF's reply here. They do read this list, right? > > -- > Pozdrawiam > Michał "rysiek" Woźniak > > Fundacja Wolnego i Otwartego Oprogramowania
