So basically some people are claiming RMS helped to set up a union to protect people from himself and that's one reason not to support RMS.
You guys are making me support him more. On March 26, 2021 5:51:57 PM UTC, Thomas Lord <[email protected]> wrote: >"It is union to try to protect people from RMS. / That's it. That's the >reason." > > As a matter of history that is simply and purely a lie. > >I don't see any of that kind of complaint, at this point, as anything >less or more than direct attempts to sabotage the FSF, the FSM, and GNU. > It has no place here. You are free not to associate with the FSF >and you should, it would seem, take that option. > >-t > >On 2021-03-26 10:46, Danny Spitzberg wrote: > >> A union certainly helped everyone set and keep healthy boundaries. I have no >> doubt RMS was supportive. Like Paul suggested, a set of community agreements >> or a code of conduct or a contributor covenant or whatever is generally a >> good thing. >> >> But as for the reason why staff organized the union -- you may call it >> silly, but here is the testimony in their own words: >> >> " I think that many people do not know that the FSF is a union shop, or why. >> >> It is union to try to protect people from RMS. >> >> That's it. That's the reason. >> >> Knowing some of the story about how this came to be, it really informed my >> own thinking about what a union can do, and can't do. >> >> Unionizing provided protections and standard benefits (like berievement >> leave) for workers at FSF. It could not remove RMS from a position of power. >> >> I think the issue for workers at the time was that RMS held unchecked >> authority. It did not matter that there was a board of FSF: you could not >> tell RMS what to do. >> >> Using the power that the law provides to force negotiations on a written >> contract was the only option. >> >> That is just... Not normal. Right?" >> >> From >> https://twitter.com/_msw_/status/1374538607982088197 >> >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:40 AM Thomas Lord <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> That's silly. The FSF was unionized with the encouragement and support of >> the FSF executives and board, including RMS, because unions are good, at >> least while the injustice of wage labor still exists. >> >>> he also caused harm to people and to the FSF organization and the free >>> software movement. >> >> I regard that as a straight up lie because none of the derogatory things >> said about him have supported that conclusion. >> >> Once again, you are free not to associate with the FSF or the movement, but >> pretending to be an ally while repeating slanders should not be tolerated >> here or anywhere. >> >> -t >> >> On 2021-03-26 10:32, Danny Spitzberg wrote: >> Consider the fact that several FSF staff are going public for having >> organized and joined a union in order to protect themselves against the >> whims and wills of RMS, like if he suddenly decided to take away health >> insurance for everyone or other workplace dysfunction. >> >> Forming a union and finally talking about it isn't "whistleblowing" because >> obviously the staff and board chose to contain the problem rather than solve >> or eliminate it. >> >> However, I think we can agree that it's compelling nonetheless and adds to >> the view that while RMS contributed good things, he also caused harm to >> people and to the FSF organization and the free software movement. >> >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:25 AM Thomas Lord <[email protected]> wrote: >> It's wrong to describe people as "whistle blowers" when they >> have not produced a complaint that stands up to scrutiny. >> >> -t >> >> On 2021-03-26 08:54, Aaron Wolf wrote: >>> I really appreciate seeing the perspective from Georgia. Thanks also >>> deeply to Deb Nicholson for engaging here in this space. Obviously, >>> these negative reports about RMS being presented *here* amounts to the >>> opposite of an echo-chamber. These voices are bring extremely valuable >>> perspective -- the sort we *lose* if we aren't careful to assure that >>> our >>> spaces are not only open to anyone but actually in *practice* have them >>> feel welcome and stay. >>> >>> The Free Software movement is weaker for every loss of perspective. We >>> have a duty to be not only gracious but appreciative of people like Deb >>> for engaging and staying with us despite the tensions. >>> >>> Georgia's line is exceptionally important: "...the fact that he faced >>> consequences for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the >>> decades of shitty behavior..." > >>>> >>>> These are not people who are dogpiling on hearsay or gotcha online >>>> statements or whatever else. Those anti-patterns do indeed happen, and >>>> they polluted and harmed the credibility of the recent open letter >>>> against RMS. But here we have people who fully understand the >>>> unfairness >>>> and yet can express from extensive personal experience the *actual* >>>> reasons why RMS's leadership is problematic. >>>> >>>> As someone who deeply and profoundly respects RMS for various reasons, >>>> I >>>> still don't just simply support his leadership role. I do not want him >>>> banished, I want him to learn and do better on his pain points. I don't >>>> want to be naive though, efforts in this direction have obviously been >>>> done for years and not been enough. >>>> >>>> I would like to continue to get RMS' insightful and pointed >>>> perspectives >>>> without having him lead the organization. I would like him to live in >>>> the zone where his genius most thrives and he contributes the most, and >>>> I suggest that the other roles he has had would be better filled by >>>> others. >>>> >>>> If we want a resilient movement, we need to be really open to engaging >>>> with complaints. An organization that defends the status quo against >>>> such critics is like the NSA attacking Ed Snowden and people >>>> insinuating >>>> that Snowden is working for Russia (similar to people talking about how >>>> Deb now works for the OSI and the OSI is connected to corporations). >>>> >>>> I'm not suggesting deference to the outside unfair critics, the people >>>> who do indeed levy unfair attacks, mine quotes, spread FUD, etc. That >>>> stuff can be real, and we need to defend against it. >>>> >>>> But people like Deb are our whistleblowers, they are insiders who are >>>> bringing attention to serious issues. If we ignore or attack >>>> whistleblowers, we will fail to learn important lessons. This attitude >>>> can be fatal to a movement. >>>> >>>> In solidarity, >>>> Aaron Wolf >>>> (FSF member since 2014, co-founder of Snowdrift.coop) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss -- Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com) Libre culture activist and privacy advocate PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3
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