Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 23:22:34 +0900
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Everyone - Opinion wanted on this List
> From: "Daniel Seiden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [archive updating] does not happen often enough since
> I am busy trying to make some money so I would be interested
> in some suggestions from other people on how we can make this easier.
> Also maybe have a website instead of a sub list where people
> can go to see the status of the list.
> From: David Chien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Ken has created an alternative list at [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> but the list messages are not archived in the same database as the
> Libretto Mailing List archives (a pretty big database of years
> of past postings). No point in fragmenting the mailing list
> into several lists at this time, right?
David,
when you say fragmenting, do you mean the list or the archive?
Fragmenting the list membership I certainly consider undesirable.
Changing the method of archiving and/or mail delivery
would not bother me too much, as long as the previous archive
was still available. From time to time such changes have to
be made because the technology changes and for other reasons.
I would certainly favor automatic archiving.
That is why I created
http://www.mail-archive.com/libretto%40basiclink.com/
If you look at
http://www.mail-archive.com/lists.html
you will notice that many lists with built-in archives
have created a secondary archive here that would be
available when the primary web site is down.
ListBot.com, OneList.com, and eGroups.com all have
built-in archive but you will find some of those lists
archived here. There is even a way to add old messages to
the archive if the messages with untouched headers
could be sent to it.
There are other similar and free mailing list
archiving services. This one, ListQuest, even
hides email addresses replacing them with GIF images.
http://lq.corenetworks.com/alllists/index.html
EGroups.com also hides email addresses from non-members
and, if desired, could be used as only an automatic archive
of this mailing list, although that would be underutilization.
Having an automatically updated archive
is one way to check on the status of the list.
I am or have been subscribed to several lists run by
ListBot.com, OneList.com, eGroups.com, and others.
Occasionally I receive 'bouncing probes' saying that
a message had bounced and they will unsubscribe
the address if the probe bounces too. I have not
been unsubscribed because I do receive the probe.
I understand that the initial problem with
[EMAIL PROTECTED] was somehow related to
bouncing and that addresses with bouncing problems
were unsubscribed and disabled for automatic subscription.
The real problem was that attempts to subscribe by email
did not get any feedback. That, together with the fact that
the archive was last updated on February 19 at that time,
and with the history of other interruptions during the
past month, convinced me that the list was not working
while most of you did not experience any problems.
I tested eGroups.com and ListBot.com by creating a list.
I had fewer problems with eGroups.com and their
email support was better. This is what I have to say
in favor of eGroups.com:
1. Free to use. Granted, a short ad is appended to each message, see end.
2. Commercially supported. Somebody's pay depends on this service.
They even post site maintenance downtime schedule.
3. Built-in archive.
4. Additional archiving possible.
5. Choice of mail delivery or web reading.
6. Choice of mail posting or web posting.
7. Choice of subscribing by mail or on the web.
8. Email addresses hidden from non-members.
9. Web space available for keeping related files.
10. Other options I have not even explored yet: chat, calendar, ...
11. Many customizable access options: public, member, moderator.
12. Support by email is OK, better then ListBot.com.
13. Minimal work required to administer an unmoderated list.
14. Even that minimal work could be shared by several list members,
making it more likely that updating will be done. I would not
want to be the only person with moderator access for a large list.
At eGroups.com it is easy to add another moderator and to delete
a moderator who is not available or interested any more.
Distributed collaboration?
I just noticed that the lines added at the bottom of each message
posted to this list still refer to:
http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/faq.html
I think that site had been out for months now. Am I wrong on this?
An example for point 11: I have set up
http://www.eGroups.com/group/libretto/
so that all members can look at the list of members.
This is customizable, the list of members could be hidden if desired.
My recomendation:
================
Main list: unmoderated list at eGroups.com with several members with
'moderator' access. If each moderator saves the list of members once a week,
we would have a needed backup to start another list if eGroups.com develops problems.
Downloading a list of members is one function available to moderators.
Extra archive: One of these two, unless sombody has better choices:
I already created this one because it was easy to do:
http://www.mail-archive.com/libretto%40egroups.com/
This one hides email addresses. To start an archive is a bit
more work, you have to be the moderator of the list to submit
a request and wait for approval.
http://lq.corenetworks.com/alllists/index.html
Ken Akiba
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PS: This is a sample ad received with eGroups.com message:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
IT Professionals: Match your unique skills with the best IT projects at
http://click.egroups.com/1/3381/4/_/917027/_/955737452/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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