Good morning Cezary,

> I think first two options are for those, who want to earn some money for 
> payments fee. The option that can be interesting for for some business like 
> coffee is third option. Do you agree with me?
>>  3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to 
>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new 
>> upcoming businesses.
> It seams the best option for new businesses, but what if such new business 
> would like to have channel with 300mBTC on both side. Let's say this is ATM. 
> The owner of ATM need to be able to receive and sending funds. Without 
> possibility of both-side funding channels this is quite hard to establish 
> such balanced channel. ATM owner needs to send 300 mBTC as on-side 
> transaction to hub, and then hub could open channel with 600 mBTC capacity 
> and send back 300mBTC to ATM owner though this new channel. This requires 
> trust to hub.

Then do not trust a single hub.  Instead, have incoming 300mBTC from one hub, 
then make an outgoing 300mBTC to another hub.  Encourages more hubs also.  This 
also makes your node a potential routing node, improving network connectivity.

> I know, LN is in early stage, but I'm very surprised that both sides cannot 
> fund channel. Maybe this is because at the beginning LN was presented with 
> such option. The only reason are trust issues that you described before, or 
> maybe there are also some technical issues to implement such functionality? 
> Do you predict this will be added to BOLT and implemented in the future?

There is already an issue regarding this. For now, priority is actual 
implementation of payments.  Dual-funding channels can be emulated by having 
some hubbing service make channels to you, while you make a channel to some 
other hub (i.e. make two channels).  Such an emulation is superior to 
dual-funding as it allows you to potentially become some alternate route if 
other routes become congested, letting you earn some small amount; compare this 
to a single dual-funding channel that, by itself, cannot be used to for routing.

Another thing is that we can make "circular superhubs" if small groups of us 
cooperate.  The smallest 3-circle superhub has 3 members A B C.  A opens 
channel to B, B open channels t C, C open channels to A.  Each channel is the 
same capacity.  If each of you has one out-channel other than on the circular 
superhub, any of A B C can spend to any node that any of them have an 
out-channel to.  Similarly, each of you can receive via any in-channel any of 
you happen to have.  Join a few such small communities and you can be 
well-connected enough to send and receive reasonably seamlessly to anyone on 
the network.


> Best regards,
> Cezary
> 2018-02-04 10:08 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <>:
>> Good morning Cezary,
>>> Lets say I would like to receive ln payments. How can I do this, without 
>>> locking funds on the other side of channel?
>> 1. Do the Blockstream Store route: do it early enough, and people will make 
>> channels to you, because, they want to try out Lightning Network quickly.
>> 2. Publish the node and contact details (IP or TOR onion service) and hope 
>> people are excited enough about your product to open a channel to you.
>> 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to 
>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new 
>> upcoming businesses.
>> 4.  Ask a friend to channel to you.
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
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