On 11-09-25 03:57 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
2011/9/24 Graham Percival<[email protected]>:
I don't see this "proposal" (really more of "a set of musings")
going anywhere. There's been a bunch of ideas:
- tool X, tool Y
- make better use of our current tools
- do a survey of what other projects do
but nothing has made a significant amount of people go "yeah, that
the right direction to move in!".
If somebody is feeling optimistic about the discussion and thinks
I'm totally off-base on this, we can talk about that... but I'm
thinking that it needs some serious thought and energy, and at the
moment I think I should be putting my energy towards removing pain
points in our development for which we've already agreed on what
to do.
Please give me a few more days to fiddle with Google Code review
sandbox set up by Carl. I was busy and didn't tested it yet, but i'm
planning to do so.
2011/9/24 Peekay Ex<[email protected]>:
There seems to be four basic cases of how 'stuff' gets created in this regard.
1. Email from person (I'd like LP to do this, or LP breaks when you do X)
2. Rietveld issue with no tracker
3. Tracker issue with no Rietveld (usually RFEs or Devs/experienced
users who spot a bug)
4. Rietveld and Tracker are created at the same time
I think that
1) should be forwarded to bug- and converted into an issue by Bug Squad,
3) (problems without solution) are ok,
2) should not exist (i.e. a tracker issue should be added immediately)
4) is my favourite way of doing things :)
After some thinking my opinion is what we really need is a code review
tool that allows to see all issues related to LilyPond, give them
labels (like patch-push etc). attach images to comments (to illustrate
how regtests fail for example). Then we could move all patch-related
discussions and activity to that place, instead of spreading it
between Rietveld and Google tracker. Here's a perfect counterexample:
http://codereview.appspot.com/4974075/
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1193
Notice how Piers wasn't initially aware of the tracker issue
(http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1193#c21) and how
currently things are out of sync, which prohibits me from taking
action (http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1193#c24 ,
http://codereview.appspot.com/4974075/#msg16) and confuses James'
testing (http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1193#c25).
cheers,
Janek
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FWIW, Janek's bit above is just what I've been saying, and I believe it
is also what James has been suggesting. The meta-problem seemas to be
that there are developers who see the world as patches submitte4d and
discussed by email, and there are Frogs, newer developers, Bug Squad
volunteers and a patch meister who just want to have the whole picture
in one place. Sure, patches *can* be managed in either, both, or
neither of the two special-purpose tools we use, and sure, *someone*
favours each permutation, but speaking as a relatively new, relatively
unskilled contributor, I can't see why locating and implementing a code
management system which handles the process as well as centralising the
discussion, is a Bad Thing. Part of the reason Graham found those
"lost" patches is that we're not using the right tool for the job: an
issue tracker which has no knowledge of any resulting patches is
severely limited. A code review tool which requires knowing a specific
issue number or developer's 'nym in order to find a patch, is useful
only on a single host, where no other projects have access.
There are dead horses being beaten here, and perhaps this is one, but I
firmly believe that lilypond is in the big leagues, with a big league
community of developers and supporters, and it is time to move to a
specialised code management tool, and leave behind the collection of ad
hoc generic tools held together with unenforceable manual procedures
that serverd a small community several years ago.
I speak bluntly, I realise, and I apologise for any offence given, but
my opinion is firm and based not just on what I've seen in the lilypond
community, but on general organisational principles, observed over a
35-year career.
Cheers,
Colin
--
I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both
hands.
You need to be able to throw something back.
-Maya Angelou, poet (1928- )
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