The kitchen is an example of including nice to have vs. essential needs in the proposal.
The kitchen that is included in both high end options is described as a kitchen that can accomodate cooking classes and the weekly senior dining lunch. Cooking classes might be a nice addition to our program offerings but do we want to pay capital cost to enable them? Cooking classes are available at reasonable cost from LS Adult ed, Minuteman adult ed, and I hear at Codman farm. In addition, there are numerous restaurants and individual enterprises that offer cooking classes. Some would be easy for seniors to access, some less so. Nice to have, but not essential. Senior dining is currently carried out offsite from Bemis and although having it under the same roof as everything else might be nice, it is again a nice to have and not an essential. There are other options for where to provide this service- the current locations at Stone church or St. Annes, potentially Pierce House. The kitchen there is small scale and oldish. But, high end catered weddings are routinely held there. A senior dining program there using take-out food seems feasible. If you change the kitchen requirement at a newly built community center to not have the floorspace and appliances needed to hold multi-person cooking classes or to prepare group meals from scratch you can build a smaller room equipped with fewer/less expensive appliances. This will not save $5 million. It won't save $1 million. It is an easy to grasp example of how the two options that are only choices we have been given include nice to have features that add cost beyond what would be required in an option that focused only on no-frills, just the real essentials. The kitchen is not the only example. The 10 year process has, unfortunately, never revealed a vetted list of essential needs versus "nice to have if we want to pay for it." I accept that during the outreach process some people, I don't know how many, said "can we have cooking classes?" That doesn't mean there is broad support for adding this service. It is very easy to say "I want that" without having to deal with "it will cost you X" when you add it to the wish list. I understand and am sympathetic to the situation you describe with your mother. I am 75 and preparing meals is a drag. The senior dining service is what the town offers to address in a small way that need. There is probably opportunities to improve the senior dining experience that we offer, but I am not convinced that we need an expensive large shiny new kitchen to achieve that. Bottom line, we can disagree about the kitchen or about any other "nice to haves". All I have been asking is that we get a believable path to seeing an honest-to-goodness option on the table that includes only the on-frills stuff, and then the voters ultimately choose which one we spend money on. The debate, in my mind is not about the kitchen it is about the absence of needs/wants clarity, the absence of a no-frills choice to consider. Dennis Picker On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:35 PM DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: > Why the harping on the kitchen? Do you think cutting the kitchen is going > to save $10 million? The cost is going to be relatively nominal. > > Plus, it seems like people who are opposed to the kitchen have the > privilege of not having had to watch their aging parents lose the ability > to safely cook at home. Cooking was a big part of my family growing up, as > it is for many, and I think my mom would have enjoyed watching cooking > classes. (The Codman kitchen, while lovely, is in the barn and does not > have a lot of room for sitting, nor is the barn temperature regulated.) > It's almost like there were people on a committee and people were surveyed > to find out what could best serve the COA community, and these were the > ideas that were raised! > > Diana > A former member of the dreaded "sandwich generation" and may you never > need to know what that means if you don't already > Giles Rd > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:34 AM Karla Gravis <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> The problem is the starting point of $25M, which includes so many “wants” >> like a teaching kitchen and a cafe. >> >> Inflation shouldn’t be the reason we push forward a $25M project without >> understanding our true needs. >> >> Wayland, which has so many more residents than us, is building a >> community center for $11M and at 13Ksqft (half the size we’re proposing). >> >> We need to level-set our needs, and spending $325K on refining proposals >> will *not* get us there. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:11 AM Lis Herbert <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Sara: >>> >>> Do not try to contort the meaning of my words and frame me as >>> insensitive. Don’t. >>> >>> I didn’t say that I think $25 million is something to sneeze at. I said >>> it will seem like peanuts if we delay, ie when the town is presented with a >>> 40M price tag down the road. >>> >>> The history of these projects has shown that 11M can balloon to 25. The >>> first school vote was for roughly half what the new school ultimately cost. >>> That’s mostly the result of waiting, and little else. >>> >>> Lis >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 9:19 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Calling $25 million “peanuts” is a bit much. >>> >>> While it may be “ peanuts” to you, a significant portion of our >>> population would find it otherwise. >>> And, to date, no one is talking about the Town operating budgets and >>> what they will look like, going forward- after we address teachers >>> contract, the hiring a new Superintendent, changes in Town Office staffing >>> and the impacts of inflation across the board. >>> >>> I suspect we will see the need for an override to support the staffing >>> needs. >>> >>> That is part of the total tax package that has an impact on individual >>> households. >>> >>> So, what may be “ peanuts” to you, may have serious and crushing impacts >>> on others. >>> >>> We need to be mindful and sensitive to that reality. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 9:05 AM, Lis Herbert <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Sara: >>> If this process is delayed or stopped entirely, again, the price tag for >>> needs may well exceed current “wants” — many of which, judging by the >>> survey results the CCBC circulated yesterday, are pragmatic, and reflect a >>> community’s needs in 2022, not 2012. >>> $25 million will seem like peanuts when it’s time to vote on whatever >>> the next iteration of this process is 5 or 10 years down the line. And >>> people will surely wonder then, if the vote is for a center in some unknown >>> location near Donelan’s, why it isn’t sited at Hartwell? >>> And around and around and around we can go, forever. >>> Lis >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:51 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> That was then, this is now. >>> We have gone through some radical changes in the last several years. >>> Our economy is volatile. >>> Our work lives have changed, as have commuting patterns. >>> >>> Should put our fingers in our ears, hands over our eyes and act as if it >>> is 2012 all over again ? >>> >>> We need to be more flexible and creative to meet the needs ( and be >>> careful about “ wants”) of the town in 2022 and beyond. >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Times have changed, and so must we. >>> >>> There is an opportunity tonight to be more creative. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:26 AM, DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Oh great, let's wash 10 years of work down the tube so we can start on a >>> new project. >>> Diana >>> Giles Rd >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 8:16 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello friends, I will *not *be voting in favor of the community center >>>> project now… for several reasons explained below. If these considerations >>>> and others you have give you pause, I hope you will join those of us who >>>> are interested in further discussion. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> First, Lincoln’s once in a generation Comprehensive Plan, approved at >>>> Town Meeting ~ten years ago prioritized revitalizing our South Lincoln >>>> commercial center. *Without a vibrant place to gather, we risk >>>> becoming an inert, mono-culture suburb,* of increasingly high priced >>>> single family homes and residents who can afford them. A vital Mall at our >>>> center would be a place to gather, meet with friends, and exchange ideas >>>> with others who have diverse backgrounds and views. Before locating a COA >>>> or Community Center building at the school property we should evaluate its >>>> potential to jump-start and support commercial and civic growth at the mall >>>> and help Lincoln slowly and steadily transition into the dynamic community >>>> we can be. It’s time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We haven’t had a thorough review of town goals or prioritized them >>>> since the Comprehensive Plan. If we choose to ignore the last Comprehensive >>>> Plan, let’s plan again. Let’s agree on priorities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There seems to be an ongoing, important, and complex discussion re the >>>> distinctions and requirements of a community center vs. a facility for our >>>> Council on Aging program….prudence dictates these be thoroughly studied >>>> and resolved before being considered for funding by town meeting. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And this project will cause real estate taxes to increase above the >>>> rate of inflation, again. It will be particularly troubling now for seniors >>>> living on a fixed income >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Let’s consider/reconsider these matters fully before we vote for a >>>> community center or a COA facility at school property. Let’s get this >>>> right. Please consider voting No. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, Joe >>>> >>>> Joe Robbat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
-- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
