You are right, I don't know that it would be a project killer. That was just my non-expert guess. If the town were willing to pay a high enough rent for community-center space at a redeveloped Mall, I guess that could work economically from the developer's point of view.
That would still leave the question of whether that is the kind of community center that we want to have. Space at the Mall is limited, and everyone seems to agree about wanting to keep as much commercial space active there as shoppers will support. So my guess (again, non-expert) is that a community center squeezed into what would otherwise be ground-floor commercial space at the Mall would be small and dreary, compared to what has been sketched out for the roomier, greener Hartwell campus (in addition to losing the cost efficiencies and social benefits from creating a multi-programmatic multi-generational space, previously discussed). In any event, the above questions seem relevant only to what one wants to vote for in 2024, when a final community center plan is put before Town Meeting, not to the voting tomorrow. Margaret Olson has pointed out in this thread that where you think the community center should be should be irrelevant to which HCA option you cote for, since ending up with a community center in the town center "is equally likely or unlikely with C as with E, or with any of the D options". I haven't got my own head fully wrapped around why that is so -- getting dizzy from trying to follow LT today -- but I trust her to know! Paul Shorb (RLF Board member but sharing my personal views here) On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:38 PM Karla Gravis <karlagra...@gmail.com> wrote: > Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a "project > killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer jump at > the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with constant > retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability of any > commercial space at the Mall area? > > According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could > consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that > would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt > service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs. The > savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to > build than what private developments cost. > > In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area because > of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling Pod C > (where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The non-LEAP > portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be costing > the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community center is > $360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate LEAP. > > To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is > chosen, this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with > Option E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the > Town. We could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a > community center and truly affordable housing. > > > >> >> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb <paul.sh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The CCBC has an FAQ linked here >>> <https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/2022/11/11/why-would-the-community-center-be-on-the-hartwell-campus/> >>> that explains >>> why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town >>> has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall. >>> >>> Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more >>> expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another >>> post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to >>> use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later >>> afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's >>> Parks & Rec programs or LEAP. Building a separate community center at >>> the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate the >>> spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about >>> $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell. >>> >>> Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could >>> actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient >>> available Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore >>> suggested including the Community Center as a required accessory use in >>> the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station. >>> However, despite the rosy theory provided by your urban planning contact, >>> that >>> sounds like a project-killer to me. >>> >>> Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me in >>> the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center >>> somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that >>> "required >>> accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only >>> fail to get a community center built there, but also fail to get the >>> Mall redeveloped with higher-density near the rail stop and shopping, >>> which would be the biggest potential climate win here. >>> >>> Paul Shorb >>> (a member of the RLF Board but expressing my personal views here) >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd <kenh...@keha.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello LincolnTalkers, >>>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an >>>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind >>>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community >>>> center on the school campus. I still believe it should be located in >>>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play >>>> because of the Housing Choice Act. >>>> >>>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it >>>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be >>>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area. For >>>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long >>>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was >>>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and >>>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the >>>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the >>>> time. A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an >>>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people >>>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered >>>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction." >>>> >>>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious >>>> concern about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are >>>> better ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 >>>> million of taxpayer money to do so. As was recently suggested to me by an >>>> experienced urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a >>>> required accessory use in the development of a future residential >>>> project at Lincoln Station? >>>> >>>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to >>>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in >>>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It >>>> would be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed >>>> tenant (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in >>>> purposely designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the >>>> cost to Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace >>>> public project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and >>>> as such the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the >>>> town's stressed taxpayers." >>>> >>>> As I also wrote last year, I believe it would constitute the classic >>>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the >>>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car. In addition, >>>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational >>>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all. And, even if there >>>> weren’t a greater awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t >>>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already >>>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a >>>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing? >>>> >>>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote >>>> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting. Absent any response, I >>>> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already >>>> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what >>>> we already have at Bemis. >>>> >>>> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order >>>> to redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far >>>> more creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a >>>> Community Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full >>>> potential as a truly vital, walkable village center. Remember, >>>> >>>> we humans *shape our environments* at a moment in time, >>>> >>>> and *then they shape us* for decades to come. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Ken Hurd >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>>
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