Exploring the Holy Land Problem: Friday, Dec 6 and Saturday, Dec 7-scroll down for details.
This is an opportunity to hear from “the other side.” Of course there are bias./opposing opinions and posturing. That is the nature of debates, and certainly we have heard much from Netanyhu’s position. There are “experts” in they know the issues form their lived experience and perspective. Most of us have had little exposure to these types of opinions and presentations. Let’s go hear them and round out the experience. None of this takes away from the unique horror of Oct.7, not the ongoing killings of innocent Palestinian civilians by the 10,000s of thousands. As to "hate crimes,” certainly there has been a rise in antisemitism and it will grow as the war in Gaza and Lebanon continues. But what is the nature of these crimes? Has any Jew been killed in the US for being Jewish? This does not mean we should look away and not address anti-semitism, nor should we look away from racism in all its sordid aspects. Let us try to not shut down discussion and others opinions. > On Dec 3, 2024, at 11:54 AM, Rosa Elena <[email protected]> wrote: > > While I agree that we should not censor good faith discussions on difficult > topics, can we really say that that the intent of this specific meeting is in > “good faith”? Let’s take a look at the invitation (please look at the pdf > with the actual description of the event). It says things like the following: > > “… confirm Israel as a Jewish supremacist/apartheid state, and to further > subjugate or eliminate non-Jews living in a Greater Israel.” > > “Zionism today (…) has emerged as an expression of neocolonialism, Christian > nationalism, and fascism.” > > Using words and phrases like supremacist, Apartheid, elimination of non-Jews, > fascism - is that “good-faith criticism” or hyperbolic language meant to > incense and generate anger/fear of Israel and by extension the Jewish > community? I am all for a fact-based discussion with multiple perspectives, > but that does not seem to be the goal of this talk. > > I don’t think the “real-life risk” of hate crimes due to this type of > language is as low as some might like to think it is. To me, the fact that > these “experts” chose to use this type of tired rethoric instead of > fact-based and rational arguments diminishes their respectability, and yes, I > find it dangerous. > > - Rosa > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 6:07 PM Joan Kimball <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Thank you Paul. A very thoughtful, clear response that, for me, puts these >> very difficult issues in perspective. >> >> Joan >> >> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024, 12:46 PM Paul Shorb <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> Rosa - >>> One can't deny the fact that sometimes, anger at Israel seems to >>> trigger/release/self-justify hate crimes against Jews in the United States. >>> Similarly, hate crimes against Muslims soared after 9/11 >>> <https://naacp.org/resources/hate-crimes-against-muslims>; >>> African-Americans were lynched in New York City riots of 1863 >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots> by people opposed >>> to the Civil War draft; etc. All of these actions targeting innocent people >>> based on race or religion obviously are terrible. >>> >>> However, that real-life risk isn't sufficient reason to censor good-faith >>> criticism of Israel for actions that arguably also are terrible - and at a >>> scale at least thousands of times as large as the increase in hate crimes >>> in the U.S. that might result. Especially when American taxpayer dollars >>> are supporting those actions, American citizens have not only a right, but >>> also a moral duty, to speak out against something they believe is unjustly >>> causing massive suffering in Gaza. >>> >>> Of course in doing so such critics should clearly focus their criticism on >>> the morally responsible decision makers (e.g., Netanyahu, American >>> politicians who support his policies, etc.), not Jewish people generally. >>> >>> - Paul Shorb >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 11:32 PM Rosa Elena <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> The description of the event (in the pdf attached to the original email >>>> and copied below for context) is pretty one-sided and not conducive to >>>> “thoughtful discussion” with multiple perspectives. Honestly, I am shocked >>>> Bemis Hall would host an event where the description has such strong >>>> inflammatory language, which could be construed as an attack on a specific >>>> population, of which we have citizens living in Lincoln. >>>> >>>> From the event description: >>>> >>>> “The Gaza genocide that began over a year ago has morphed into Israel’s >>>> three-front strategy to expand its borders and replace non-Jews living in >>>> Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank with an army, citizens militia, and >>>> Jewish settlements. Based on past, aggressively pro-Zionist policies, an >>>> incoming Trump administration appears ready to confirm Israel as a Jewish >>>> supremacist/apartheid state, and to further subjugate or eliminate >>>> non-Jews living in a Greater Israel. In calling for an end to Israeli >>>> apartheid and for a shared homeland for all, we join the struggle against >>>> the rise of authoritarianism in Europe, the Global South, and the United >>>> States. Zionism today, as ideology, theology and political project, has >>>> emerged as an expression of neocolonialism, Christian nationalism, and >>>> fascism.” >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 12:33 PM Annamaria San Antonio >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Agreed. Thank you, Sara !!! >>>>> I did not see this at all as propaganda and very much appreciated hearing >>>>> about an event with thoughtful discussion. Dangerous ? Perhaps I did not >>>>> read through but I did not see "false claims of genocide and apartheid". >>>>> >>>>> Peace >>>>> ~Jai . >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 4:38 PM Sara Mattes <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> I would urge all to listen/attend before passing judgement. >>>>>> We have few opportunities to hear rom and question directly such >>>>>> individuals with direct experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps those objecting are familiar with the speakers and would like to >>>>>> share their experiences so that others might know what to expect? >>>>>> >>>>>> Let’s keep an open mind and allow others to judge for themselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> Namaste, >>>>>> Sara >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2024, at 12:22 PM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amen, Forest. Ideological diversity is well and good, but let's please >>>>>>> keep LT apolitical and free from this sort of low-grade propaganda. >>>>>>> ᐧ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 11:47 AM Forest Brown <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I appreciate your wanting dialogue on this issue, but advertising >>>>>>>> speakers who are sharing false claims of genocide and apartheid is >>>>>>>> dangerous and this isn’t the platform for that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2024, at 9:07 AM, Stephen R. Low >>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Steve Low >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Stephen R. Low <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: November 27, 2024 9:07 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Exploring the Holy Land Problem: Friday, Dec 6 and Saturday, >>>>>>>>> Dec 7 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Palestinians, Israeli Jews, and those of us who care about them have >>>>>>>>> never faced challenges greater than today’s. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contributing to this mess has been the Biden administration’s Holy >>>>>>>>> Land policies, which have been—shall I be polite and say, “awkward?” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now, we await a Trump administration, whose 2016–2020 Israel policies >>>>>>>>> were so ill-considered and unbalanced, that many believe they helped >>>>>>>>> to incite Hamas’s murderous attack on October 7, 2023. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> These “realities” pose major challenges for all of us seeking peace, >>>>>>>>> equality, and justice in the Holy Land. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rather than wring our hands in despair, the GRALTA Foundation has >>>>>>>>> organized two events to help us shape constructive, outside-the-box >>>>>>>>> thinking about how to refine the American people’s understanding of >>>>>>>>> the Holy Land Problem and how to advocate for new U.S. Mideast >>>>>>>>> policies that will improve conditions and achieve security for all >>>>>>>>> who live there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here are two (free) opportunities to hear two internationally-known >>>>>>>>> speakers—two experts on the Holy Land’s human rights problem—who can >>>>>>>>> help us to answer the question, “Where can we go from here? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Friday, Dec. 6 @ 7:30 PM >>>>>>>>> Community Church of Boston >>>>>>>>> 565 Boylston St., Boston >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/565+Boylston+St.,+Boston?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>>>>> accessible via the T, between Dartmouth & Clarendon or >>>>>>>>> discount vouchers available for Back Bay Parking Garage, 199 >>>>>>>>> Clarendon Street >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/199+Clarendon+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Saturday, Dec. 7 @ 2:00 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bemis Hall >>>>>>>>> 15 Bedford Rd., Lincoln, MA >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/15+Bedford+Rd.,+Lincoln,+MA?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>>>>> park across the street at the “Stone Church” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please join us for one of these events. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Our speakers: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <image002.jpg> >>>>>>>>> Mazin Qumsiyeh Human Rights Activist, Professor, Bethlehem & Birzeit >>>>>>>>> Universities >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Prof. Qumsiyeh was born and raised in Beit Sahour on the outskirts of >>>>>>>>> Bethlehem. His evolving world views have been shaped by living under >>>>>>>>> Israeli occupation, the education he received at universities in the >>>>>>>>> Middle East and the U.S., and on years of extensive travel throughout >>>>>>>>> the world. After obtaining a doctorate in Zoology and Genetics from >>>>>>>>> Texas Tech, Mazin trained at the St. Jude Children’s Research >>>>>>>>> Hospital and taught at the University of Tennessee, Duke, and then at >>>>>>>>> Yale. He is author of 190 scientific papers, hundreds of articles, >>>>>>>>> and several books on topics ranging from cultural heritage to human >>>>>>>>> rights to biodiversity conservation to cancer. >>>>>>>>> After returning to Palestine in 2008, Mazin and his wife Jessie Chang >>>>>>>>> founded and run (as volunteers) the Palestine Institute for >>>>>>>>> Biodiversity & Sustainability and the Palestine Museum of Natural >>>>>>>>> History—both situated on the Bethlehem University campus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <image004.jpg> >>>>>>>>> Mark Braverman Executive Director, Kairos, USA >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dr. Mark Braverman is a retired clinical psychologist and trauma >>>>>>>>> consultant. Raised in a traditional Jewish family, he was steeped in >>>>>>>>> Jewish religious observance, Bible study, the Hebrew language, and >>>>>>>>> the Zionist narrative. Confronted by the reality of ethnic cleansing >>>>>>>>> and ongoing colonial settlement of Palestine, Mark has devoted >>>>>>>>> himself since 2006 to working for a future of dignity and peace for >>>>>>>>> all the people living between the River and the Sea. >>>>>>>>> Mark has been closely involved in the international church movement >>>>>>>>> for Palestinian rights. He spoke at the launch of the Kairos >>>>>>>>> Palestine document in Bethlehem in 2009 and served on the Palestine >>>>>>>>> Ecumenical Forum of the World Council of Churches. He is the author >>>>>>>>> of two books and numerous journal articles and book chapters on the >>>>>>>>> Kairos movement, ecumenism, post-holocaust theology, Jewish and >>>>>>>>> Christian Zionism, and Christian-Jewish relations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Steve Low >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <002 v-1 Qumsiyeh-Braverman Poster.pdf> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>
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