Rakesh, thanks for your comments. I'll respond inline. On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 10:26 AM karmachay--- via Lincoln < [email protected]> wrote:
> I offer here my two cents on the recent discussions regarding the GRALTA > events… > > I attended my first GRALTA Foundation meeting last month. Spurred by the > discussions in LincolnTalk, I decided to go and listen to the speakers > myself. It was a full house at Bemis that day and the speakers included an > American Jew and a Palestinian Christian from Bethlehem. They talked about > their experiences and gave their perspectives, followed by a round of > questions and answers. If you were looking for something incendiary or > bombastic, you would have been disappointed. It was a staid but somber > presentation. I subsequently attended another GRALTA event – a film that > focused on the experience of two young American adults who had gone to > Israel and came back with a different perspective of what was going on in > Israel. It was poignant but I did not see or hear anything that remotely > indicated incitement for hatred of Jews. > Nobody said that Israelism incited hatred of Jews. Israelism falsely accuses Israel of apartheid, and falsely claims that Jews are not indigenous to Israel. I also never said that Mazin Qumsiyeh would speak bombastically. I said that he publicly supported the October 7th massacre and has published instruction manuals for the harassment of Jews globally, and I stand by those statements. The events in the last year and a half have been heart-wrenching and have > brought to fore the tragic situation in the region. Jews and Arabs both > live with so much pain, fear and uncertainty. The barbaric massacre and > kidnapping by Hamas on October 7 unleashed a new wave of violence. The > names and faces of those still held captive are a constant reminder of that > tragic day. Among the captives is Bipin, a 23-year-old from my home country > of Nepal. I read about the agony of his family in the Nepali newspapers as > they await news of his fate and hope for his safe return. In the aftermath > of this attack, we have seen the relentless bombings unleashed by the > Israeli government. I am struck by the dehumanization of the Palestinian > people and our silence in the face of the seeming banality of the Israeli > actions, as people squabble about whether the death toll is 40,000 of if > the reports are inflated and the toll is only 30,000. > I appreciate your care for Israelis and Gazans, but you only have half a solution. What are the responsibilities of Hamas and the people of Gaza? They are people, too, and they also have the power to make decisions about the future of Jews and Arabs. Can you think of any decisions that Hamas or the people of Gaza might have taken over the past 15 months to end the war and prevent the suffering of both sides? Attempts to silence criticism of the Israeli government’s actions and to > prevent expression of different perspectives on the conflict by demonizing > them as antisemitic are troubling to me. The seam of antisemitism runs deep > in the American and European societal fabric. Trying to drown out > disagreeable views by labeling them as antisemitic trivializes the > seriousness of antisemitism and runs the risk diluting the cause - akin to > the boy who cried wolf. The rise in antisemitism in the US is real, as has > been documented over the last two decades by organizations like the > Southern Poverty Law Center. The real serious threats reside in the rise of > the far-right neo-Nazi groups, both in the U.S. and in Europe. The current > unholy alliance of the pro-Israel lobby with the far-right for the sake of > political expediency may lead to short-term gain but it will lead to > indelible harm to the fight against antisemitism in the long run. I am > reminded of Martin Niemöller’s refrain as I view the current situation with > the far right along the lines of “First they came for the Arabs…”. > Nobody is silencing criticism of the actions of the Israeli government or of Hamas. I have objected and will continue to object to content that aims to delegitimize the equal rights of the Jewish people to self-determination and to political power. I would like to see a citation for your claim that support for equal rights for Jews is a "far right" issue. Support for equal rights for Jews is a concept that has broad appeal left, right, and center: Ritchie Torres (D-NY) and Ted Cruz (R-TX) agree on virtually nothing, but they both strongly believe that Jews deserve the same rights as other people. Finally, while far-right antisemitism is also real and important, it has been eclipsed over the past year by far-left antisemitism and Islamic antisemitism. The young tiki torch marchers of Charlottesville in 2017 are the keffiyeh-clad college students of 2024. These are difficult and complex topics that engender strong emotions and do > not lend themselves to quick one-line answers. Discussion in email and > online boards often degenerate into acerbic language and hurt feelings, as > we ascribe tone and facial expressions to the words that we read. In-person > meetings present the opportunity for more civil and fruitful discussions, > even though that there will be differences in opinion. I firmly believe > that most of us, if not all of us, mean well and want to do good and help > alleviate the suffering of others, though we may have different ideas on > what to do and how to do it, > > I laud Steve and Barbara Low for their attempts to give voice to the > voiceless and provide a platform for perspectives of those who are deeply > involved in the Holy Land, as the Lows call it. There is a range of > opinions and perspectives on these issues among the Jewish people. I had > not met Steve and Barbara before, but I found them to be reasonable, > thoughtful and kind. The motto that the GRALTA Foundation highlights is > "Equal Rights for Equal People", as they clearly expound on their website > https://gralta.org/about-gralta/. Steve talked about how he visits Yad > Vashem during every trip to Israel and spends time in the section for the > Righteous Among the Nations, in honor of the non-Jews who took great risks > to save Jews from the Nazis. I see the Lows’ work along the same vein, as > Jews trying to lend their hands and voices to non-Jews who are suffering, > in the hallowed tradition of *tikkun olam*. > > In peace, > Rakesh > > > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2025 at 08:46:55 AM EST, Sara Mattes < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Unless you have seen these films, you cannot make categorical statements > as to your interpretation. > > I urge all to refrain from commentary unless they are prepared to make > conclusions. > > Commentary and reviews include citing examples from the piece being > critiqued. > > We are savvy enough to do that, aren’t we? > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 18, 2025, at 8:42 AM, Margo Fisher-Martin < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > My thoughts exactly. Why stop there? I bet we could think of many types of > films and presentations that people here in Lincoln would feel strongly > about not supporting. As Jonathon and others have stated, these films > encourage the hatred of Jews and promote antisemitism. I truly believe in > freedom of speech, but if these films were about any of the topics stated > below (and I could name many more), then I am sure people would feel > differently about watching and “drawing their own conclusions.” > > Respectfully, > > Margo Fisher-Martin > 14 Giles Rd > > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 8:03 AM Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > If movies that promote hatred of Jews via conspiracy theory are worthy of > our town, why stop there? Are there any such movies that we would not > encourage people to attend? Movies that call for the resumption of human > slavery for black people in America? Movies that call for the slaughter of > Native Americans? Movies that call for the institutionalization or > sterilization of LGBTQ+ people? Movies that call for resuming limits on > immigration of Catholics? Movies that call for banning women from the > workforce? > > More plainly, where is our line? Are there any identity groups in Lincoln > for whom promoting hatred and bigotry is *not* ok? > ᐧ > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 7:20 AM Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: > > > All, > Watching films to determine their message and the underlying implications > has been important to understanding history. > For me, I have watched more than a few. > I could not have understood the depth of deception or truth without doing > so. > I am sure we are educated and intelligent enough to discern fact from > fiction, to process what is useful information…and maybe even learn > something new…to draw our own conclusions. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 18, 2025, at 6:51 AM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I am familiar with the movies > <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CSBsdSGXV5g8Gk3CvgTUjXKf/https%3A%2F%2Fpairlist9.pair.net%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Flincoln%2F2024-December%2F067572.html>, > including this one. > > This particular movie has nothing to do with the people of Gaza at all. > It's a movie that promotes a conspiracy theory that the Jewish people > "secretly control" the US government. And Mr Low's flier for the film takes > things a step further, implying that Lincoln is also vulnerable to "secret > Jewish control." The movie's conclusion is that people should do what they > can to prevent Jews everywhere from seeking political power like other > identity groups do. > > Would Mr Low and Ms Mattes also encourage us to watch QAnon propaganda > videos, so we can "make up our own minds"? Those videos were also based on > lies, though I've heard that the filmography of them was quite convincing, > leading a lot of people to believe their nonsense. > ᐧ > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 4:59 PM Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: > > It is the responsibility of those who object to organize/ sponsor/ host > what you describe. > > How can anyone condemn these films without seeing them? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 17, 2025, at 4:49 PM, Jane Appell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thank you to all who are speaking out very articulately. It is valuable to > have views aired in the open. I particularly agree with the statement that > there is a difference between anti semitism and the criticizing of > Israel's political stance. This dilemma has caused a lot of grief inside > the liberal Jewish community as well as in the world. We all need to be > able to think critically, but it is too easy to revert to simplistic > thinking. > > My objection to the particular films that have been shown is that they > give a partial picture of the entire situation. They not inherently bad > films, but they miss perspective when shown separately to a group of people > who may or may not have a well-rounded historical, emotional and > political perspective of the situation. This is particularly the case since > October 7 of last year. I believe the films would be more valuable as part > of a well rounded approach to the Issues that present themselves in Israel > and Palestine--perhaps a series of films with a variety of > viewpoints, followed by discussion that can examine all aspects of what > has been happening. Otherwise these films run the risk of perpetuating a > black-white view of the situation, which I believe is potentially dangerous. > > Jane > *Jane Appell, Ph.D.* > 781-259-1049 > www.janeappell.com > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE - The information in this transmission is intended > only for the individual indicated and may include confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution or the > taking of any action relevant to the contents of this transmission are > prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify > the sender. > > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 3:37 PM Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Definitely skip the "Zionist > conspiracy theory" movies. > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 15:11 Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: > > All, > We have heard from a number of very articulate voices as to concerns over > the GRALTA series > Jonathan has told us what he thinks we need to alerted to regarding this > upcoming movie. > As Rachel reminds us, this is one voice. > > The only way to sort some of the statements out is to go view and critique > the movies ourselves. > New aware and be sensitive. > > I trust we are educated and sophisticated enough to reach informed > conclusions on our own. > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2025, at 2:32 PM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > I genuinely appreciate your earnestness, and you make a great point for > why anti-Zionism is inherently antisemitic: Criticism of Israel's actions > *is* different from criticizing Israel's right to exist as a Jewish > state, which is typically leveled at it only because it is Jewish, as in > these movies. > > *A nation is not required to be perfect in order to be legitimate* (see: > USA, Canada, England, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, not to mention > China, Syria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc). This is what is so dangerous about > these movies and speakers. They criticize not only Israel's actions (in a > highly biased and inaccurate way), but also claim that the Jewish people > therefore do not deserve equal rights to political power or > self-determination the way that other people do. By creating a "Jews bad, > Arabs good" narrative, not only do the movies falsely demonize the Jewish > people, they rob everyone of the opportunity to take a broader perspective. > > I think this is the healthiest back-and-forth we've had on this topic so > far. Thanks, Rachel. > ᐧ > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 2:18 PM Rachel Marie Schachter < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I know you’re not calling for censorship. I do think that some other > responses on LincolnTalk were saying this series shouldn’t be allowed to > take place. > > To answer you directly — I believe, and work daily to live into the > belief, that any speech or actions against Jewish people based on being > Jewish is absolutely wrong, which isn’t anywhere near a strong enough word. > I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so I can’t convince you of that > over email, and I’m not trying to. > > When people trying to criticize Israel, a political power, conflate that > criticism with demonization of all Jewish people, it delegitimizes any > argument being made. Period. There are people advocating for the people of > Palestine who are working hard to not do that, and to actively combat it. I > was trying to agree as someone who believes in a free Palestine that > antisemitism isn’t somehow suddenly fine, and you’re right, a lot of the > loudest voices are acting like it is. And I wanted to remind people that no > one person is the voice of a movement or viewpoint. > > Thanks for taking me at face value and having a genuine conversation. > That’s all I’m trying to do. > > Rachel > > > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 9:15 AM Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > Nobody is calling for censorship. However, these movies (with which I > happen to be familiar > <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CSBsdSG5OfaOo2EhGw6HQr8J/https%3A%2F%2Fpairlist9.pair.net%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Flincoln%2F2024-December%2F067572.html>) > each promote the delegitimization of equal rights for the Jewish people in > different ways, whether opposing their right to free speech, to > political power, or to self-determination. And so they are being called out > for promoting hatred against a minority group. > > You say that calling out antisemitism in any movement is important, and I > agree with you, but you haven't yet said what that means to you. Which > beliefs, speech, or actions against the Jewish people do you oppose, and > which beliefs, speech, or actions against the Jewish people do you not > oppose? > ᐧ > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 7:07 PM Rachel Marie Schachter < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I apologize if this falls in the category of something that shouldn't be > continued on LincolnTalk, but I don't want to respond to you privately, > Steve (Brown), and have you think that I'm saying something privately that > I wouldn't be willing to say publicly. I've also had this general idea > floating around my brain for a while, and since I don't know you > personally, I think it makes more sense to respond on LincolnTalk. > > I want to acknowledge your pain and trauma, your lived experience, and the > very true and real history and present rise in antisemitism in America, > including in our town and locally. I truly hope it doesn't make that seem > insincere to say I just want to remind people that Steve Low is just one > person, GRALTA is just one organization made up of more than one person who > I assume don't all share exactly the same viewpoints, and not everyone who > believes in a free Palestine (myself included, and I have for a long time) > approaches their advocacy with antisemitic rhetoric, by conflating Zionism > (which I don't believe has a simple cut-and-dry definition, but I'm also > just one person) with the state of Israel with Jewish people in general. > Steve Low obviously doesn't believe he's doing that, and I'm not here to > argue that one way or the other. There *is* a ton of antisemitic rhetoric > within factions of movements advocating for a free Palestine. It's not > every person or every organization, but it absolutely exists, and it > shouldn't, and it detracts from everyone's goals because it's deflective > and misguided. > > In my view, true liberation demands calling out antisemitism within *any* > movement, > the same way it demands calling out *any* legitimately harmful rhetoric. > I don't believe in censoring the series (for transparency, I haven't seen > any of the films) because I don't believe in censorship in general. I just > hope it gives literally anyone comfort to be reminded that no one person or > group is the face of any movement or outlook, and the loudest voices are > very much not necessarily the voice of a majority, let alone a consensus. > > Rachel > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 10:23 PM S Brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > As we ponder the implications of the question raised in the message below: > *“Could > this happen in Lincoln?”,* we might also consider once again how > antisemitic rhetoric has become normalized in Lincoln. The implication is > that a Zionist conspiracy is encroaching dangerously upon our town, seeking > to control the media, the educational system, and the government. > > For those who don’t see how disturbingly insensitive, offensive, > inflammatory and utterly frightening this sort of rhetoric is to so many > Jews in this town, I weep. > > For those like my family, who have long had our children under armed guard > at their schools, camps, and places of worship, who have been so repeatedly > traumatized by events over the course of the last 15 monhts, and who feel > so deeply the pain of all those who have suffered in the war, I weep even > more, as I see this town we love, once a sanctuary, succumb to a venomous > rhetoric that is poisoning our community, and labels us as the enemy. > > Steve Brown > > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *"Stephen R. Low" <[email protected]> > *Subject: **[LincolnTalk] Reminder: GRALTA's Israel-Palestine Film Series > continues on Thursday (Jan 16) and Sunday (Jan 19)* > *Date: *January 15, 2025 at 7:03:36 PM EST > *To: *"Lincoln Talk" <[email protected]> > *Reply-To: *[email protected] > > *The GRALTA Foundation screens the second film in our winter film series* > *The Lobby-USA (Part 1)**, a 2017 documentary produced by Al Jazeera > Investigations.* > > *“A superb undercover investigation”* > *~** Middle East Monitor **~* > > *Two screenings in Lincoln, MA—a weekday evening and a Sunday afternoon.* > > - *Thursday, January 16 at 7 PM at Bemis Hall, 15 Bedford Road* > - *Sunday, January 19 at 2 PM at the Lincoln Public Library, 3 Bedford > Road* > > > [image: image004.png] > <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CSBsdSK5-WS101mj0gOmaD9P/https%3A%2F%2Fzoa.org%2F2018%2F04%2F10377872-zoa-mort-klein-convinced-qatar-to-cancel-anti-semitic-al-jazeera-jewish-lobby-series%2F> > > Regards, > Steve Low > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > <image004.png> > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > ᐧ
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