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Today's Topics:
1. Re: "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?" (Roger Clarke)
2. A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to
AI. (Antony Barry)
3. Re: "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?" (Tom Worthington)
4. Re: "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?" (Sylvano)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 12:10:39 +1100
From: Roger Clarke <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LINK] "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?"
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 9/10/2024 09:01, Sylvano wrote:
> Watching the way young folk circumvent bans suggests we need to
support our legislators with different ideas and approaches.
> And I?ll kick off with an old idea being used now (ironically!) for
gambling: ...
> Crackpot idea? You have anything better?
Certainly not crackpot Sylvano!
However, I want to go off on a tangent, or maybe 'fight the question'.
Is it such a bad thing that "[some] young folk circumvent bans"?
(Or even that some people productise the circumvention tools and make
them available to less technically capable young people?).
'Twas ever thus.
No school, parental or society ban has ever been proof against young
people who were determined, skilful, nihilistic, disaffected, reckless
and/or <insert other adjectives>.
But many bans had the effects of:
(a) communicating that 'grown-ups' (or whatever term's now appropriate)
think there are some serious dangers out there that need managing
(b) altering the outlook and/or behaviours of some percentage of the
young in a more conservative / careful / avoidance / informed /
'responsible' / <insert adjective> direction
If my kids then, and my grandkids now, choose to circumvent protections,
it wasn't in my parental, and certainly isn't within my grandparental,
powers to override their circumvention.
But (if I can manage to formulate what kinds of safeguards should be
imposed on what kinds of content and functionality - which is a bit
challenging after all) I as parent or grandparent can support installing
what people seem to now want to call 'some guardrails'.
________________
On 9/10/2024 09:01, Sylvano wrote:
> G?day Linkers,
>
> as we follow Labor?s evolving social media ban policy for people under age X,
> I am intrigued to see what thoughts we have within this group about the
> practicable policy options to address the ills of the ?net?
>
> Watching the way young folk circumvent bans suggests we need to support our
> legislators with different ideas and approaches.
>
> Let me kick off.
>
> And I?ll kick off with an old idea being used now (ironically!) for gambling:
>
> Regulate the major socials to:
>
> - insert a 10 second public service announcement, "What?s Doomscrolling
> really costing you?", after 5 minutes of mindless scrolling. Then a 20 second
> one after 10 minutes, then a 30 second one after 15 minutes, etc.
> - attempts to scroll the announcement brings the announcement back for a full
> time display, only disappearing if the announcement is allowed to expire to
> its set timing.
>
> The implementation of the legislated requirement by the major socials being
> easily tested on any device.
>
> And an equal requirement for all users, of any age.
>
> Crackpot idea? You have anything better?
>
> Bring it on, let?s have a bit of brainstorming fun!!
>
> cheers
> Sylvano
>
> _______________________________________________
> Link mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
--
Roger Clarke mailto:[email protected]
T: +61 2 6288 6916 http://www.xamax.com.au http://www.rogerclarke.com
Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA
Visiting Professorial Fellow UNSW Law & Justice
Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 14:31:21 +1100
From: Antony Barry <[email protected]>
To: Link list <[email protected]>
Subject: [LINK] A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone
Age to AI.
Message-ID:
<caecotwydqjbayshioga36ewhhpigm7-fdeoejp-2wtk-2t_...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Any body read this -
Harari, Y.N. (2024) *Nexus:A Brief History of Information Networks from the
Stone Age to AI*. Vintage Digital.
If so would they like to comment?
Tony
--
Mob:04 3365 2400 Email: [email protected], [email protected]
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 18:22:25 +1100
From: Tom Worthington <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LINK] "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?"
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 9/10/24 09:01, Sylvano wrote:
> as we follow Labor?s evolving social media ban policy for people
> under age X ...
It troubles me that our MPs think young people need protecting from what
they see online, but are mature enough to be sentenced for adult crimes.
> - insert a 10 second public service announcement, "What?s
> Doomscrolling really costing you?" ...
Those ads don't work. It is just something inserted so legislators can
be seen to be doing something. In that sense it is an excellent idea for
online content.
> Crackpot idea? You have anything better?
Tell the companies what age their customers can't be, then occasionally
check. Leave it to the companies to work out how they tell how old
customers are and just regulate their performance. Impose on-the-spot
penalties based on the level of non-compliance.
--
Tom Worthington http://www.tomw.net.au
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 19:22:08 +1100
From: Sylvano <[email protected]>
To: Tom Worthington <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LINK] "What?s Doomscrolling really costing you?"
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Excellent, some push back!
That the burger gambling ads work or not is missing the point on a couple of
fronts.
Firstly, the insertion of an interruptive message during the doomscroll
behaviour is a direct message intervention in the addictive activity, not a
warning to not act on the advertised call to action.
Secondarily, it is an easy to implement requirement upon the social giants.
And as both you and Mr Clarke have noted, the nonsensical attempts to banning
reveal a different approach.
Notwithstanding that, I am in full agreement to your point:
Tom: ?Tell the companies what age their customers can't be, then occasionally
check. Leave it to the companies to work out how they tell how old customers
are and just regulate their performance. Impose on-the-spot penalties based on
the level of non-compliance.?
But I argue the it is not sufficient, and requiring intervention strategies
implanted by the social media companies into the behaviour of their user base
is a must.
cheers
Sylvano
> On 9 Oct 2024, at 6:32?pm, Tom Worthington <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> ?On 9/10/24 09:01, Sylvano wrote:
>
>> as we follow Labor?s evolving social media ban policy for people
>> under age X ...
>
> It troubles me that our MPs think young people need protecting from what they
> see online, but are mature enough to be sentenced for adult crimes.
>
>> - insert a 10 second public service announcement, "What?s
>> Doomscrolling really costing you?" ...
>
> Those ads don't work. It is just something inserted so legislators can be
> seen to be doing something. In that sense it is an excellent idea for online
> content.
>
>> Crackpot idea? You have anything better?
>
> Tell the companies what age their customers can't be, then occasionally
> check. Leave it to the companies to work out how they tell how old customers
> are and just regulate their performance. Impose on-the-spot penalties based
> on the level of non-compliance.
>
>
> --
> Tom Worthington http://www.tomw.net.au
> _______________________________________________
> Link mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
> <OpenPGP_signature.asc>
------------------------------
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