Greetings;
Re: the training comment. When I first started in DP there was always
one or two trainie operators and programmers on the staff. The first
place I worked we got them from a couple local business schools. We
never hired anyone straight out of college because they didn't know
anything about business DP. You just can't run a business app by
sucking all the appropriate records into memory and processing them
from a table!
I once had three trainees working for me on a big payroll project.
When the project was completed they got an excellent reference from
us and they all went out and got better jobs than I had. I should
have gotten a clue from that!
Anyway, OJT is the only way I have ever experienced that gets people
trained in the way things are really done. It is sort of a community
responsibility and until Corp. America realizes that there will
continue to be a shortage of people.
Good Luck!
Dennis
Coffin Michael C
<Michael.C.Coffi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc:
Sent by: Linux Subject: Re: Mainframe skill shortage
on 390 Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RIST.EDU>
07/22/02 12:01
PM
Please respond
to Linux on 390
Port
I enjoyed reading this article, but disagree with some of the "conclusions"
reached, for example:
"People need to accept that there's going to be a shortage of mainframe
skills and a need to migrate off the mainframe."
If you believe (as I do) that a zero-downtime, ultra-scalable,
cost-effective mainframe mega-processor is the only way to run an
Enterprise, then why would business want to "migrate off the mainframe" to
less stable, less scalable, less cost effective (overall) hardware? I
think
that it is time for business to take a close look at this issue, which
effects them directly in the years to come, and decide to make an
investment
in their own futures by:
1. Paying fairly for mainframe talent.
2. Providing training for new talent for the years to come.
I have been working with mainframes and, more specifically, VM (and now
Linux/390 as well) since 1981, and as a VM Consultant since 1987. Despite
there being some "dry times", I've always found work. I know many other
mainframe employees and consultants that have given up on the mainframe
entirely because there is so little work, you frequently need to travel to
where the work is, and depending upon the geographic location compensation
may be ridiculously low (don't even THINK of taking a mainframe programming
contract in Florida - the "sunshine tax" will kill you!).
While the advent of personal computers has some value in the Enterprise
(i.e. your secretary can download pictures of Tom Cruise naked - something
difficult at best on the mainframe!), I still believe that the brunt of
most
corporate computing is, and should be, done on mainframes.
Personally, you'll have to pry my last mainframe from my cold, dead hands.
:)
Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programming Consultant
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6527
1111 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20224
Voice: (202) 927-4188 FAX: (202) 622-3123
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Terrence W. Zellers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 2:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mainframe skill shortage
~
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Edwin Handschuh wrote:
> Terrence:
>
> I never left the mainframe platform. I began in 1978 and haven't
> looked back since. Fortunately I'm only 41 yrs. old and I'm hoping
> the demand for mainframe talent picks up soon as others retire. Sure,
> I picked up PC skills in the early 80s and some Unix skills in the
> late 90's, but my bread and butter has always been mainframe. I'm not
> going to lie to you and tell you that it's been an easy road post Y2K,
> but there still is a level of demand out there for good mainframe
> talent. The trick is to find the right client at the right time and
> at the right price.
My point is that generally unix work pays more than MF work for
titularly similar positions and that employment is generally easier to find
in the unix world (admittedly, it's been very tough the last two years all
around). That being the case many people who would otherwise be available
for MF work won't come near it.
I am my most telling example: I'm making 50%+ more than I ever did
as a sysprog, and even in these tough times, though they haven't sent me
out
on an interview in a long time the headhunters call "just to touch base" on
occasion. I'd *consider* a move to another *ix job for the ROT 15% but
because of the rarity of MF positions and the poor future employment
options
I wouldn't even go out on an interview for a mainframe job unless there was
at least a 25% increase potential - which I don't see ever happening.
I know of no other cases exactly like mine though anectdotally I
know I'm not that rare; I do know of several techies who went management
(and from thence often drifted from IS to/through telcom, facilities, and
even sales), and some others who directly left the industry entirely. Point
here is that the salary ceiling for MF techies is too low; as my kids
approach college age I needed/wanted more though I wanted to remain a
techie
and I was able to get it moving from MF to *ix; others get around that
ceiling in other directions.
From the other direction, why would a pup want to go mainframe when
there are more *ix jobs and they pay the same or more and the sky is
higher?
> On another note, I believe IBM has initiated a new promotion for
> colleges to teach mainframe skills again (COBOL, etc.)....
COBOL???? (I will do COBOL maintenance ... only if you are a good
friend who needs a big favor ... or you pay an hourly high enough to
indemnify the potential brain damage and therapy for the psychological
scarring[in my case, reopening old wounds!]).
It's a good thing that a venue to learn the skills is available,
but
it's not going to do any good unless there is economic incentive to learn
them.
The best thing about Linux390 is that it allows cross-over
potential
for some skills as the linux employment potential grows. But as long as MF
salaries are noticeably below unix salaries there will be a
"mainframe skill shortage". The situation WILL correct itself - either
the "skill shortage" will remain and the mainframe will continue to die
slowly (I believe David Boyes has dibs on turning off the last MF with
VM) or those who own and run mainframes will decide that they are worth the
premium to recruit and pay the people to run them.
Ultimately, comments about a "mainframe skill shortage" are whining
about the weather. (Shut up or pay your oil/electric bill).
-- TWZ
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Copyright 2002 by Terrence W. Zellers. All rights explicitly reserved. |
| email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.voicenet.com/~zellert/pub.key |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Who decides the work day is nine to five instead of eleven to four?
| Who | decides the hem lines will be below the knee this year and short
again |
| next year? Who draws up the borders, controls the currency, handles |
| all of the decisions that happen transparently around us? ... I'm with |
| them! Same group, different department.... (B5 Zha'ha'dum) |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
