Linux-Advocacy Digest #689, Volume #25 Sat, 18 Mar 00 20:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: *Real* Win2000 sales figures? (John & Susie)
Re: Windows 2000: download bog (abraxas)
Re: Windows is a sickness. Unix is the cure. ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
Re: Virus Scanning a Linux CDrom ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
Re: gnome website sabotaged? ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
Re: Disproving the lies. (Johannes Nix)
Re: Windows 2000: nothing worse ("Jim Ross")
Re: Make linux primary OS at work? ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
Re: Top 10 reasons why Linux sux ("Jim Ross")
Re: Bsd and Linux (John Hasler)
Re: Windows 2000: download bog ("Chad Myers")
Re: Windows 2000: download bog ("Robert Moir")
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re:Darwin or Linux
(Sal Denaro)
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(Sal Denaro)
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(Sal Denaro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John & Susie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: *Real* Win2000 sales figures?
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:10:08 -0500
Where do you get the *free* Win 2000 CDs? I'm game, 4.0 works great for
me...
Bob Tennent wrote:
>
> On 18 Mar 2000 16:23:59 GMT, mr_organic wrote:
> >I've been hearing a lot about Windows 2000 hitting the "one
> >million" sales mark. Is this real end-user sales, or does
> >it include things like OEM preloads, distributor deals, and
> >so forth?
>
> Not to speak of the CDs they're giving away for free. I wonder when
> they're going to start paying us to use it? All for a good cause
> though: keeping the MS share price up!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000: download bog
Date: 18 Mar 2000 23:10:58 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have *never* seen this kind of effect on a Sun Sparc/Solaris based
>> high volume email system. Ever.
> Not that kind of blatant ignorance deserves any type of reply, but
> the "download-queue" is not anything to do with Windows2000.
Interesting that you know exactly where the problem was.
> Probably what is happening
"probably". Tell me, Chad, do you ever resort to backing up your
arguments with actual FACTS?
And what about my requests for your opinions on a few posts over
the last couple of days? Would you rather keep silent than admit
that you actually dont have any facts to back up your arguments?
> is that B&N had put restrictions on how
> many simultaneous downloads can be happening to conserve bandwidth
> and not suck down all their pipe for downloads and not allow the
> other paying people to be able to simply view the site.
I see. "Probably" what happened, eh. Thats a very strong argument
youve got there, Chad.
> And yes, you can do this on Solaris and any other system too.
Indeed you can. Yet Solaris and "any other system" continually do
not break in this manner.
> In fact, many FTP servers have this built in as well.
Sure do. "Maximum simultanious connections exceeded" is a much
more acceptable error than "the page you requested cannot be
displayed" though, wouldnt you say?
> C'mon guys... even this is beneath you.
Facts, Chad.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Subject: Re: Windows is a sickness. Unix is the cure.
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:18:39 GMT
Wife's account. I got yelled at for not using a real name and email
address, quite like most of the LinoNuts around here.
Newsdawg you say?
Hmm that opens up a whole new set of possiblities, and seeing as I
have a couple of weeks vacation....
Steve
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:15:44 -0500, Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED], net wrote:
>>
>> Excellent book!
>>
>> I got a real kick out of that GreenBlatt guy.
>>
>> Steve
>
>Check this posting out. First, the name in the headers is
>"heather69". Then, the person signs it "Steve". Steve, you'll have
>to get a newsguy account or something. With newsguy, people can only
>trace your posting back to Newsguy's servers (which is newsdawg,
>iirc), and not to your ISP.
>
>I've noticed that newsguy's servers are called "Newsdawg". Maybe the
>people at newsguy are Browns fans? LOL
>
>- Donn
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Subject: Re: Virus Scanning a Linux CDrom
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:20:21 GMT
I thought so but the CDRom on my Thinkpad gets sick trying to read
Linux CD's.
It is a Sigma Data drive and even trying to open the readme give's it
fits.
Steve
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:52:52 +0000, "Colin R. Day"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> I didn't get any answers to this in the ...setup group, so I'll try
>> here.
>> I just got a couple of distributions (Corel & Caldera) from
>> CheapBytes. Thought I'd check them for viruses just in case something
>> could've gotten on while the cdrom's were being created.
>> The machine I used was running McAfee on NT4.0. When I tried to scan
>> the disk, it worked for awhile, then EVERYTHING crashed and I got a
>> blue screen that said something about "starting memory dump"?! Had to
>> reboot the computer.
>> Was this something to do with the different Linux file system on the
>> disk, or does it sound like a problem? I'm almost nervous trying to
>> install it now.
>
>Don't CD-ROM's use the ISO 9660 filesystem?
>
>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Subject: Re: gnome website sabotaged?
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:22:15 GMT
It's obvious...They have finally seen the light :)
Steve
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:12:08 +0000, patrick hutton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I went to gnome gnotices section and clicked on comments for various
>news bits. On doing so I was sent to microsoft web page! What's going
>on? I tried site at 13.00 hrs gmt 18/03/00.
------------------------------
From: Johannes Nix <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Disproving the lies.
Date: 19 Mar 2000 01:34:32 +0100
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Christopher Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> oops - hehehe - my boo boo, but the point still stands, 600,000 new users
> this week eh? I don't think so.
>
>
He assumes 60 million users worldwide, I would assume perhaps 20
millions. There were some reports in IDC or USA Today reporting that
about 4 to 6 % of the corporate desktops use Linux. Well, nobody knows
the exact number.
They seem to duplicate every year, which may be sustained well by the
numbers in the server market.
Now,
jnix@mizar:~ > python
>>> 2.0**(1.0/50)
1.01395947979
>>>
That means a growth of 1.4 % per week.
Johannes
------------------------------
From: "Jim Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000: nothing worse
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:22:56 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ZZIA4.966$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jim Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:YeHA4.2633$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > When you pay an admin $100,000 a year, $319 is not very much.
> >
> > $319 doesn't sound appealing to a home user though.
> > Emachines computers can be bought for that now I believe.
>
> Win2k isn't targeted at home users. It's a business oriented OS.
You right.
>
> > > normal users are restricted from making changes to network protocols
or
> > file
> > > shares. Why would you want your normal users screwing around with
that?
> > > The idea of a normal user is that they aren't allowed to change any
> > > administration settings.
> >
> > I feel Linux allows one to stay in user more that W2K since it is easier
> to
> > pop into
> > root to do a root type activity since Linux has the su command.
>
> And Win2k has the "run as" command.
Is this a command line command?
Don't commands have to be one word?
>
> > > Very few viruses effect NT/2000. More than Linux, sure. But a tiny
> > > fraction of those that effect 95/98.
> >
> > You're right.
> > Unfortunately there are a whole new class of viruses that do affect
> NT/2000
> > I believe.
> > I'm referring to the cross-platform Word 97 macro viruses.
> > I would think the Outlook address book viruses could still operate too.
>
> Such a program could operate under Unix as well. Your mail aliases are
just
> as accessible to a binary program (and more and more binary releases are
> coming out these days).
Hmmm. How would that work?
I agree with you a binary program can access mail info in Linux just like in
Windows/NT/2000, etc.
The thing I thinking is a don't have a program in Linux that can run Word 97
macros.
Also I'm thinking that a virus can spread easier under Windows/NT/2000 since
it supports Active X, and other hooks with
could allow a virus/attachment/whatever to use the client software (like
Outlook) to replicate.
I don't think Kmail from KDE has these types of hooks.
Also Active X doesn't run in Linux.
So on that level it stikes me that a virus would be much less potient in
Linux.
Especially in a locked down senerio.
Plus those viruses seems to be able to turn off macros warnings, email
without user's help now, etc.
I believe this is so due to the integration of Windows and Windows apps like
Outlook, which doesn't exist under Linux.
Jim
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Subject: Re: Make linux primary OS at work?
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:39:38 GMT
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:18:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>So here's my current situation:
>
>1. Writing code, doing other real work on an out of date (2.6) solaris
>box which I don't manage.
My guess is Linux can do this. Main reasoning is home users have no
interest in doing such.
>2. Using netscape as an integrated browser/mail client on NT. This is
>bad. Netscape is crashing/corrupting a lot lately.
You'll feel right at home here because Netscape sucks universally
under every operating system including Windows.
>(Yes, I have two computers.)
>
>3. Frequently getting M$ stuff in attachments. I like being able to
>launch Word, etc from a single click on the attachment.
Doubtful you will be able to accomplish this with a single click.
Linux users prefer to run scripts to do stuff like this and spawn
other programs to deal with the attachments. They call it freedom of
choice. I call it a pain in the ass. Bottom line is you will need 15
different programs to do it.
>4. This is the biggie. Synching address book and calendar program
>(meeting maker) with my palm IIIx. This is very important, as my Pilot
>will sometimes beep at me and get my lazy ass out of bed so I don't miss
>early meetings.
I send my condolences. Even if you can find such a program, and I
doubt one exists simply because it is a useful program and something
an average guy might like and Linux prefers to cater to the geeks
henceforth 100 different editors and so forth but not a trace of year
2000 quality multimedia. DVD anyone?
>5. This is a nicety. Synching my palm pilot with AvantGo in NT, so I can
>pull down the New York Times, etc.
See above. Good luck..Might be able to link to /. though.
>Desire- To do everything in Linux because I'm a unix junkie, NT sucks,
>and BG is the OS antichrist.
BG is a nerd geek that has the personality of a wet sponge. Chances
are he is agnostic although I don't know for sure.
>Problems:
>1. Palm synch support.
> Can I get Avantgo from Linux?
> Could I have done my PalmOS 3.3 upgrade without using NT?
> Can I synch my Palm with Meeting Maker from Linux?
Even if you can, you will be jumping through hoops for the rest of
your life because Palm caters to Windows users and you will always
have to find one to upgrade.
>2. Good integrated mail reader/browser required:
> Is there a good linux browser/mail client out there?
HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
The biggest joke of them all. Ain't no such animal, only a collection
of disjointed crap that is offline reading hostile and looks like
green screen applications of the 1980's.
Try them and see for yourself.
> I hate to admit it, but IE is a superior product to Navigator.
> Some people rave about MUTT for a mail client, but for God's
>sake, the thing looks like a VT100 with finger paint on it.
Linux users LOVE this kind of crap. They call it superior and will
happily point out all kinds of obtuse applications (scanning for a
*I$W.* in each email received) where Agent or Outlook will fail all
the time ignoring Agent and Outlooks ability to launch/join
attachments spell check and read offline without using a dozen other
applications.
> I am a total XEmacs geek, and I would love to be able to
> M-C-<whatever> my heart away while I compose messages, but I'm not
> sure I'm ready to give up rich text composition.
Why should you?
Want your Email to look like crap?
>3. Good and reliable window manager required.
> The version of enlightenment packaged with RH6.0 froze on me way too
> much. I just ordered mandrake and I will be giving KDE a try.
KDE is pretty nice.
>4. Browser plugins.
> If I browse in linux, I'll be missing out on certain
>multimedia stuff, right?
How about running a version of Realplayer at least 3 versions behind
the current Windows version?
Try FINDING the Linux version of RealPlayer on their site and you will
get a good idea of how much they care about Linux.
>
>Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated.
Stick with Windows and you will be much happier.
Steve
>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Jim Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why Linux sux
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:28:19 -0500
BTW, good debating with you Mark even though we didn't agree.
Jim
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:59:27 GMT
Pjtg0707 writes:
> However, if I take a Linux dist, alter the kernel code and recompile into
> my own verison of Linux, then I have to dist the modified code under GPL
> should I choose to release 'my version' of Linux and not charge money for
> it.
Wrong. You may only distribute it under the terms of the GPL, but you are
free to charge whatever the market will bear.
> Should I ever have some kind of non-disclosure agreements in place with
> some other companies, and if my modifications contained stuffs cover
> under the non-disclosure clause, then GPL will be a problem.
As it is intended to be.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000: download bog
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:52:59 GMT
"abraxas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8b12e2$9uf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> I have *never* seen this kind of effect on a Sun Sparc/Solaris based
> >> high volume email system. Ever.
>
> > Not that kind of blatant ignorance deserves any type of reply, but
> > the "download-queue" is not anything to do with Windows2000.
>
> Interesting that you know exactly where the problem was.
Jumping to biased conclusions is simply ignorant. Simply because
B&N got overwhelmed and had a download queue that got exceeded does
not mean that Windows2000 has a flaw. It's simply ignorant conjecture
that you even propose that. You didn't say it in so many words, but
your implied meaning was obvious.
> > Probably what is happening
>
> "probably". Tell me, Chad, do you ever resort to backing up your
> arguments with actual FACTS?
Windows2000 and consequently IIS 5 does not have download limits
or queues natively. They must be implemented through code, just
like on any system (yes, even Solaris).
That is a fact. If you don't believe me, then you are merely
beFUDed and I cannot help you.
> And what about my requests for your opinions on a few posts over
> the last couple of days? Would you rather keep silent than admit
> that you actually dont have any facts to back up your arguments?
You attempted to argue that *nix's archaic permissioning bits scheme
was better than DAC. There's really no reply to that, as you obviously
have no clue. Again, there's nothing I can do to help. It's best just
to ignore you and let you live in ignorant bliss than attempt to
explain to you why you are wrong.
> > is that B&N had put restrictions on how
> > many simultaneous downloads can be happening to conserve bandwidth
> > and not suck down all their pipe for downloads and not allow the
> > other paying people to be able to simply view the site.
>
> I see. "Probably" what happened, eh. Thats a very strong argument
> youve got there, Chad.
Windows2000 doesn't have the restriction. So B&N had to put it there.
That's a fact. I was merely speculating as to WHY.
<sigh> And water is wet, need I explain that to you also?
> > And yes, you can do this on Solaris and any other system too.
>
> Indeed you can. Yet Solaris and "any other system" continually do
> not break in this manner.
This was not a "break" in Windows2000, this was a break in B&N's
designed implementation of Win2K. I could get Solaris to break too,
does that make Solaris bad? Of course not.
Your biased FUD makes me sick. If you want to argue that it was stupid
for B&N to implement it in that way, I would most likely be on your
side, but for you to imply that this is a flaw in Win2K in any way
is just plain stupid.
Slashdot is poorly implemented, it's down frequently or just plain
slow all the time. Is it fair to blame that on Linux? Of course not.
It's Slashdot's choice of how they implemented Linux.
Likewise, HP's site runs Apache on HP-UX and is eternally slow, is
that a failing in HP-UX or just a design flaw?
> Sure do. "Maximum simultanious connections exceeded" is a much
> more acceptable error than "the page you requested cannot be
> displayed" though, wouldnt you say?
I don't recall that ever being said. What the reporter said is
that the site had exceeded it's download queue and that the
book would be sent via email, and then he received an email stating
that the site was overloaded and they were unable to process his
request.
Where did it say "the page you requested cannot be displayed"?
>
> > C'mon guys... even this is beneath you.
>
> Facts, Chad.
Exactly, so far, you have not presented any and have drawn large
sweeping ignorant conclusions from one simple implementation of
Windows2000.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Robert Moir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000: download bog
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:05:00 -0000
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:4oPA4.10893$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "abraxas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8b0dp6$2rtl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy rm_rupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Isn't Barnes and Noble's one of Drestin's highly touted sites
> > > for NT excellence!???
> >
> > > [bn.com / barnesandnoble.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4
> > > or Windows 98]
> >
> > > http://cnn.com/2000/books/news/03/15/king.ebook/index.html
> >
> > > "A CNN editor who attempted to
> > > download the story from Barnes &
> > > Noble's site on Tuesday was told the
> > > downloading queue was backed up,
> > > and offered the opportunity to have
> > > the book e-mailed directly to him.
> > > Some hours later, he received an
> > > e-mail saying high demand had
> > > delayed the e-mail delivery."
> >
> > I have *never* seen this kind of effect on a Sun Sparc/Solaris based
> > high volume email system. Ever.
>
> Not that kind of blatant ignorance deserves any type of reply, but
> the "download-queue" is not anything to do with Windows2000.
>
> Probably what is happening is that B&N had put restrictions on how
> many simultaneous downloads can be happening to conserve bandwidth
> and not suck down all their pipe for downloads and not allow the
> other paying people to be able to simply view the site.
>
> And yes, you can do this on Solaris and any other system too.
>
> In fact, many FTP servers have this built in as well.
>
> C'mon guys... even this is beneath you.
>
I suspect it's actually above them. After all, the Solaris systems they
admin in their bedroom and college dorms do not exactly need bandwith
throttling to deal with both connections when they are operating at peak MP3
leeching capacity.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sal Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re:Darwin or
Linux
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:58:03 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:06:32 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Did you read Mike's post? _he_ wrote a clone of QT for Unix with three
>>other programmers using information published by Apple. It took him
>
> He did NOT write a complete replacement for Quicktime in 1.5
> weeks. You are a sleazy piece of shit for trying to claim he
> did.
I did not say that. Did you read my post?
>The 'wrapper' bit of Quicktime has been accessable for
> years. NOONE is complaining about that bit.
Then what are you complaining about? That Sorenson isn't giving away
their property so you can watch movies on Linux? That Apple isn't
giving you a free movie player? Next you'll be bitching that no one
will give you change for the bus...
>>1.5 man weeks to write a file type decoder. That's peanuts when compared
>>to the effort put into Samba or LessTif.
BTW, I stated that he put in 1.5 man weeks to decode the file type, not
clone QT.
>>1) QuickTime is a published spec
>
> So, where do I get this published copy of the sorenson Codec?
> Please provide a specific url rather than sleazy indirection.
>From sorenson. As other's have pointed out, there are products that
use the sorenson codec other than Apple's QuickTime.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Salvatore Denaro
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sal Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:58:12 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 17 Mar 2000 14:02:27 -0600, Jonathan W Hendry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In the meantime, go watch Willy Wonka and see which of the
>characters you most resemble.
Who is Veruka Salt?
Alex, I'll take spoiled brats for $400...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Salvatore Denaro
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sal Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:58:18 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:18:44 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Besides, what makes you think they *have* to?
>
> Simple consumerism. That's what seperates us from some Stalinesque
> state where you only get to see nifty product in museums. That's
> the whole point of capitalism.
The whole point of capitalism is that you should be able to force people
to give you what you want for free?
I wonder if that sound I hear is Ms. Rand doing back flips in her grave...
>>Okay, then write a better codec.
Ahh... a real capitalist!
> I bet you support the greater-than-draft-age legal drinking age now
> as well, since that injustice no longer effects you.
<sarcasm>
Yes... and he is obviously in favor of killing puppies and giving the police
the right to shot to kill just for fun.
</sarcasm>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Salvatore Denaro
------------------------------
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