Linux-Advocacy Digest #257, Volume #26 Tue, 25 Apr 00 13:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Re: which OS is best? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: which OS is best? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: i cant blieve you people!! (Joe Ragosta)
Re: Where is PostScript support?? (Stephen Cornell)
Re: on installing software on linux. a worst broken system. (The Cat)
Re: Red Hat Linux Backdoor Password Vulnerability (Craig Kelley)
Re: Where is PostScript support?? (JEDIDIAH)
Windows Rescue Disks (was: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical") (Craig Kelley)
Re: i cant blieve you people!! (Craig Kelley)
Re: i cant blieve you people!! (Craig Kelley)
Re: i cant blieve you people!! (Craig Kelley)
Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...) (Leslie
Mikesell)
Re: Red Hat Linux Backdoor Password Vulnerability ("Chad Myers")
Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary ("William Palfreman")
Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary ("William Palfreman")
Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary ("William Palfreman")
Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary ("William Palfreman")
Re: Windows Rescue Disks (was: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical") (JEDIDIAH)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.flame.macintosh
Subject: Re: which OS is best?
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:09:15 GMT
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:01:17 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:35:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>wrote:
>
>>>Or if you're just a normal human being who wants to get things done
>>>quickly without investing mountains of time and effort (and trips to
>>>the library to get manuals) just to do some basic filesharing.
>>
>> What makes you think some granny won't need to do the same for
>> Windows. You've not really supported the claim that 'she'
>> wouldn't, just made the claim that what is there seems obvious
>> from the point of view of a relative expert.
>
>...by expecting a user to right click on a file, click sharing, and
>then say OK?
Yes, that is UNREASONABLE. That all presumes a level of knowledge
of the system that a novice CAN'T be expected to have.
Have you ever actually dealt with dufus end users?
>
>Or by the ease of which I can tell someone how to do that?
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.flame.macintosh
Subject: Re: which OS is best?
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:12:48 GMT
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:09:44 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:40:36 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>wrote:
>
>>>I think enough people have moved to the GUI to demonstrate that it is
>>>the preferred interface. I know *you* are more comfortable in the
>>>CLI, but I think most people have shown to strongly prefer the GUI.
>>
>> In this day and age, people aren't exactly given a choice. They
>> never have been really. The 'tyranny of the majority' has
>> historically forced them to use one option or another not because
>> it was 'best' but because it was most numerous.
>
>Clicking on something is easier than opening a manual to try to find
>the right commands.
You've never demonstrated that the end user wouldn't have to
open up a manual in either sitatuation. You've just assumed
that they would magically stumble upon the same combination
of UI steps that you've learned over time. You also baldly
assume that the random end user would have the requistite
concepts already understood.
>
>> Windows itself exists as a dominant player in the market DESPITE
>> being at it's core a rather primitive CLI that managed to defeat
>> Macintosh due to numbers rather than quality.
>
>Please detail how NT/2k is "a rather primitive CLI".
NT isn't the dominant player, WinDOS 98 is.
NT5 is just some 'server OS' that it's own author doesn't
want being used by 'mere mortals'.
Perhaps they think there are too many conceptual landmines in it.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: i cant blieve you people!!
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:24:49 GMT
In article <8e4elh$mlg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Kim A. Sommer) wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In <8e378b$5jv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, steve jobsniak
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >|i cant believe you peolpe... micorsoft is going down, taking the rest
> >|of
> >|the tech stocks down alogn with it, and you folks are
> >|*happy*!!! will you only be happy when the entire stock market
> >|crashess, taking the economy, your job, and preciuos apple with it???
> >|of course you'll change you're minds then, but why not change your mind
> >|now WHILE YOU CAN STILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE and keep it from happening?
> >
> >Steve,
> >
> >How can you be so simple minded? Don't you realize that the real
> >problem is that Gates is willing to see the entire economy suffer
> >rather than compromise... or even, just "play well with others"?
>
> [snip]
> >The quetion you should be asking is: Why won't Gates & Co. cut a
> >deal with the DOJ? Don't these guys have faith in their own
> >products and technologies to succeed in the marketplace without the
> >boost of their monopolistic practices?
>
> I'm still surprised the MS stockholders haven't raised a fuss with the
> board for not settling the case out of court. That seems to be a prime
> example of not protecting the shareholders' interests. But then maybe
> hypnotism really does work.
Actually, they'd have a hard case.
MS still has a few cards up its sleeve. They could also have been sued
if they settled out of court too early.
It's a tough position to be in.
--
Regards,
Joe Ragosta
Get $10 free:
https://secure.paypal.com/auction/pal=jragosta%40earthlink.net
Or get paid to browse the web (Mac or PC):
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=KJS595
------------------------------
From: Stephen Cornell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where is PostScript support??
Date: 25 Apr 2000 17:24:52 +0100
> On 25 Apr 2000 15:20:38 +0100, Stephen Cornell wrote:
> However, I simply haven't found an alternative that
> >compares to the ease of use, appearence, and speed of presentation my
> >colleagues enjoy with PowerPoint.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Tennent) writes:
> What do you think of magicpoint:
Well, it's not as easy to use, good looking, or fast to display as Powerpoint.
--
Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
From: The Cat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on installing software on linux. a worst broken system.
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:28:19 GMT
I consider it a privilege.
On 25 Apr 2000 14:50:06 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
Porter) wrote:
>
>congrads Wintroll, (those who are silent, are understood to agree)
><plonk>
>
>
>Kind Regards
>Terry
TheCat (Steve)
"Agent under Wine and powered by Mandrake 7.0"
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat Linux Backdoor Password Vulnerability
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Apr 2000 10:39:17 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Seeing as how a simple buffer overrun was mistreated as a "backdoor" that was
> purposely placed by Microsoft, I thought it was only fitting to see how
> Open Sores can fall victim to the same thing.
>
> http://xforce.iss.net/alerts/advise46.php3
>
> 'cept, it's not just a buffer overrun, it's an actual password placed in the
> product so that your linux box can be more easily used for DDoS'ing large
> eCommerce sites without having to mess around with actually hacking the box
> (not that that is harder or anything).
>
> "With this backdoor password, an attacker could compromise the web server as
> well as deface and destroy the web site."
Kinda like the "change_on_install: password for Oracle, or the "dba"
password for sqlanywhere, or the "sql" password for ase?
It is stupid to have a default password, but it's hardly a new
attack. I've never used Microsoft SQL Server, but I'd wager that it
also has a default password...
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Where is PostScript support??
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:41:31 GMT
On 25 Apr 2000 17:24:52 +0100, Stephen Cornell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 25 Apr 2000 15:20:38 +0100, Stephen Cornell wrote:
>> However, I simply haven't found an alternative that
>> >compares to the ease of use, appearence, and speed of presentation my
>> >colleagues enjoy with PowerPoint.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Tennent) writes:
>> What do you think of magicpoint:
>
>
>Well, it's not as easy to use, good looking, or fast to display as Powerpoint.
"good looking" is not something I would ever use to describe Powerpoint.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Subject: Windows Rescue Disks (was: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical")
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Apr 2000 10:49:15 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (s_Ea_DAag0n) writes:
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:39:54 GMT, Mike Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Yep.. no such thing as Windows "rescue disks" at all.
>
> Sure there are. Windows makes you create one when you install it.
What good is it? Seriously. What can you do with an NT rescue disk?
Can you boot up with it and tell a certain, broken service to not
start and then reboot back into a good environment, or do you have to
reinstall everything to do that?
> >Could've booted off a CD too.
>
> No I couldn't have. I don't have a CD-ROM drive on that computer. Does Linux
> support netbooting yet or is it still stuck in the 1960's?
Linux has had nfs-mounted root drives for a long time.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: i cant blieve you people!!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Apr 2000 10:53:16 -0600
steve jobsniak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> i cant believe you peolpe... micorsoft is going down, taking the rest of
> the tech stocks down alogn with it, and you folks are
> *happy*!!! will you only be happy when the entire stock market
> crashess, taking the economy, your job, and preciuos apple with it???
> of course you'll change you're minds then, but why not change your mind
> now WHILE YOU CAN STILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE and keep it from happening?
You give us *way* too much credit (or blame, as it were).
Linux has no effect on Microsoft's stocks. It was devalued for
"disappointing quarterly results", not because of LNUX. Microsoft
even beat street estimates by 2 cents a share, but the stock market
community is very very strange.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: i cant blieve you people!!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Apr 2000 10:53:50 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) writes:
> In article <8e378b$5jv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> steve jobsniak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >i cant believe you peolpe... micorsoft is going down, taking the rest of
> >the tech stocks down alogn with it, and you folks are
> >*happy*!!! will you only be happy when the entire stock market
> >crashess, taking the economy, your job, and preciuos apple with it???
> >of course you'll change you're minds then, but why not change your mind
> >now WHILE YOU CAN STILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE and keep it from happening?
>
> Everybody send Bill Gates $1000, or God will call him home
> to Heaven!
We can setup donation cans at the local gas stations as well. :)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: i cant blieve you people!!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Apr 2000 10:56:49 -0600
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> steve jobsniak wrote:
> >
> > i cant believe you peolpe... micorsoft is going down, taking the rest of
> > the tech stocks down alogn with it, and you folks are
> > *happy*!!! will you only be happy when the entire stock market
> > crashess, taking the economy, your job, and preciuos apple with it???
>
> The stock market is over-valued as it is.
>
> It's an accident waiting to happen.
>
> Price:earning ratios in the range of 30:1 to 200:1 do NOT make for a
> ROBUST stock market.....they make for a stampeding bull headed for
> a cliff.
Except that everyone's retirement accounts keep pouring into the
system every month.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...)
Date: 25 Apr 2000 11:55:25 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
s_Ea_DAag0n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>A serial console is not remote capability.
What??? You mean all those years I used unix with modems
on serial ports I wan't really remote?
>In any case there are tools
>available which allow you to connect a serial console to a Windows
>machine, to run a DOS session.
Would you be able to do all necessary administration through
this interface?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat Linux Backdoor Password Vulnerability
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:59:28 -0500
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> It is stupid to have a default password, but it's hardly a new
> attack. I've never used Microsoft SQL Server, but I'd wager that it
> also has a default password...
As a matter of fact, it doesn't. It forces you to type in a password
during install.
You can put in a default one, but it warns you about it. You can't
just keep hitting next and bypass it.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "William Palfreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:28:25 +0100
John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Vladimir writes:
> > I got a better idea, why dotn we take all the factories, farms ands
other
> > means of production the we have created working for the masters?
>
> Or, to put it more bluntly, "Let's kill the rich and take their money".
>
> Better not come out here and try to take my farm.
That's happening in Zimbabwe right now.
------------------------------
From: "William Palfreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:47:19 +0100
Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Leslie Mikesell would say:
> >A different interpretation is that he is being paid to think, not
> >to work, and you don't turn off thinking at the end of working
> >hours. Different companies have different approaches to this
> >and no one is forced to work for any of them.
>
> I walked into CompUSA (looking for a network cable) today, and was
> accosted by a sales rep for some voice recognition system who asked
> me if I could type at 140 wpm.
>
> My instant reaction was, "Nope. No need. I get paid to _think,_
> not to type rapidly."
>
> Never got around to the question, "So, does this work with the
> UNIX command line?"
>
> Nor did I get to the question, "What is the equivalent to tabbing
> to do filename/command completion?"
Very suave. I think in this day and age it is vital to be the expert - else
your stuck in a cheap suit having to smile at people professionally. Not a
pleasent prospect.
------------------------------
From: "William Palfreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:21:00 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> William Palfreman wrote:
> > blah blah jibberish and so on.
>
> I have looked at the last several comments made by you on this thread
> and it is obvious you have no clue about what socialism or communism
> are. Just because a governing body says it is a certain thing does not
> make that thing. Any first year political science student knows that.
> You need to try to educate yourself about what you seem to enjoy
> discussing so much. If your knowledge of those political systems and the
> one in predominate use in the country is represented accurately by the
> words under your name on those messages, you are horribly lacking in
> understanding of what is going on in the world.
Don't you like me very much then? What a shame. Are you a student? You
sound like one. Maybe the one you mention in your rant above? Perhaps I
need to educate myself into, well, some one who agrees with you a bit more?
I am not actually quite clear what you are flaming me about here. Is it
just the tone of what I've written or is it some substantive thing you
disagree with me on? Perhaps you aren't all that used to people having
different political views to your own. Do you think that just because you
and your friends all have nice safe middle-of-the-road opinions that all
respectable people do too?
For God's sake if your going to flame someone at least do it properly.
------------------------------
From: "William Palfreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:37:58 +0100
JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:18:21 +0100, William Palfreman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >
> >> Fallacy: We only want what is good for business.
> >> Fallacy: We are not willing to make tradeoffs that are bad for
business.
> >>
> >> Both of these are reflected in the caselaw of most civilized nations
> >> that put limits on commerce based on some public interest. The more
> >> extreme examples would be racketeering, gambling, prosititution, and
> >> the narcotics trade.
> >
> >So? You aren't seriously claiming that there in any public interest in
> >drugs, gambling and prostitution being against the law, are you? What
you
>
> Such laws are typically justified ONLY by notions of public interest.
Such as?
>
> >do is your own business, so long as you aren't harming anyone else, and
when
> >you are harming someone else (by doing something to them that they didn't
> >agree to, like bashing them over the head) then and only then does it
> >becomes an issue for law. There is no public interest involved in my
> >playing cards or for that matter smoking heroin in my own home.
>
> That's very much a minority viewpoint.
No, its a fact. Lighting up ones opium pipe in ones own home is an entirely
private matter. Bashing someone over the head is not, as it involves doing
something *to* someone else that they didn't agree too. Desperatly trying
to get back on topic, It is nobody's business but mine what OS I run on my
computer, but if I go about forcing people to install Redhat at gunpoint,
then there is a public interest involved - hence laws. Now Redhat may be a
better OS than Windows, but there is no need to start passing laws
controling what I do on my own machine. People need to work out what's
right by themselves on personal matters.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Windows Rescue Disks (was: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical")
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:07:02 GMT
On 25 Apr 2000 10:49:15 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (s_Ea_DAag0n) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:39:54 GMT, Mike Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >Yep.. no such thing as Windows "rescue disks" at all.
>>
>> Sure there are. Windows makes you create one when you install it.
>
>What good is it? Seriously. What can you do with an NT rescue disk?
>
>Can you boot up with it and tell a certain, broken service to not
>start and then reboot back into a good environment, or do you have to
>reinstall everything to do that?
>
>> >Could've booted off a CD too.
>>
>> No I couldn't have. I don't have a CD-ROM drive on that computer. Does Linux
>> support netbooting yet or is it still stuck in the 1960's?
>
>Linux has had nfs-mounted root drives for a long time.
The obvious question is: where is this facility in WinFOO such
that criticizing the lack of this sort of facility in Linux by
an MS Shill wouldn't be pure hypocrisy.
BTW, there is a Linux Terminal Server project and a selection of
NICs with the necessary boot ROMs are available. LSL has sold
them for quite awhile now.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
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