Linux-Advocacy Digest #342, Volume #26 Tue, 2 May 00 19:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Darren Winsper)
Re: Government to break up Microsoft (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Is Linux like IRIX??Helpp
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Government to break up Microsoft (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Kool Breeze)
Re: Are we equal? (mike list)
Re: Are we equal? (mike list)
Enjoy it more! 35107040 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Are we equal? (mlw)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (petilon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: 2 May 2000 20:56:29 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 03:48:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not trying to assume anything, but if YOU go to any computer club,
I went to a computer club recently. Nearly everyone had heard of
Linux, and a number had recently installed it. Most loved it, but had
to keep Windows for certain applications.
> strike up a chat at Compusa,
I don't live in the US, but I have been to Software Warehouse and a
number of the staff can't even use Windows properly, yet alone Linux.
> strike up at chat at any trade show,
> Computer show, ham fest etc, it will be YOU that is in the minority
> and YOU that will spend countless time explaining Linux and what it is
> about.
Actually, you are likely to find numerous Linux users these days since
the clueful ones are the ones going to the shows and the clueful ones
seem to be the ones moving away from Windows.
> It will be YOUR kids that will have to go in circles trying to find
> software that conforms to their college standards.
I won't force an OS on my kids. Besides, by the time I have them (If I
do), the computing world will be nothing like what it is today.
> It will be YOUR
> kids that will have to explain Linux to all of the other kids as well
> as teachers in their school that will most likely be running Windows.
Yeah right. My school had Acorns, which used RISC OS.
> So if YOU wish to run Linux, that is great but understand that YOU are
> in a small, very small in fact, minority that are excersising their
> choice in operating systems.
That minority is estimated at close to the market share of MacOS and is
growing so rapidly it'll dwarf MacOS within the next year or so.
This time last year, Linux was virtually unkown in my area. Today it's
a very different story.
> I prefer to ignore the os and get some work done that conforms to
> accepted standards, meaning what everyone else is using.
Which is just plain sad. "Oh, everyone's jumping off a cliff, it must
be fun."
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Government to break up Microsoft
Date: 2 May 2000 15:55:00 -0500
In article <#yLtCTGt$GA.260@cpmsnbbsa04>, Ermine Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If you didn't want a system with Windows, you could negotiate with Dell,
>etc. to get a system w/o Windows.
Are you just making this up or did someone actually do this before
they started shipping Linux systems?
>However, you had to make it economically
>feasible for Dell to do that. Specifically since Dell provides specific
>guarantees of system viability and support. Preparing and testing the
>system to make sure that all the components are working is one of the
>production steps. Others are that to test the systems, an image has to be
>burned onto the drive. The cost of creating an image w/o Windows is cost
>prohibitive - they still have to put an image on the drive for testing;
>removing that image would be an additional step in production and testing
>resulting in increased costs.
Doesn't wash... Dell engineering could easily have contracted for
or written a burn in test suite that is better for the purpose
than windows.
>It is not cheaper for Dell to sell a system
>w/o Windows - and that's the real factor.
You are guessing that this would have been a one-off operation.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Is Linux like IRIX??Helpp
Date: 2 May 2000 17:02:16 -0400
JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>I'm probaly buying a sgi Indy that has IRIX 6.5 preloaded and I was
>wondering if anyone knew how closely Linux and IRIX are in using
>them (commands etc) Thanks for the help probaly the wrong N/G but
>you guys are way smart. Thanks and sorry for wasting the bandwidth.
Depends on what you're doing with it. The basic Unix shell commands
(ls, vi, etc.) in IRIX behave almost exactly like their GNU
counterparts on Linux (except ls probably doesn't display colors,
and vi probably doesn't keep the screen as clean as something like
nvi, and GNU long options aren't supported anywhere). The GUIs and
locations of configuration files (and even the format of some of
the files) probably differ a great deal.
--
Microsoft Windows. Beyond crappy. Beyond belief.
Microsoft Windows. It could be worse, but it'll take time.
Microsoft Windows. The problem for your problem.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:06:08 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:36 GMT, Edward L. Sandwicheater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>> >> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>> >> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>> >> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>> >
>> >Have you been to cuba?
>>
>> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
>> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
>> exactly go your way on this one.
>>
>How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
>Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
...as they do in China, Albania and did in the Soviet Union.
>want to leave. Obviously most Cubans support Castro and their
>Revolution.
That is far from obvious. The situation is far less simple
than you make it out to be.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Government to break up Microsoft
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:09:59 GMT
On 2 May 2000 15:55:00 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <#yLtCTGt$GA.260@cpmsnbbsa04>, Ermine Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>If you didn't want a system with Windows, you could negotiate with Dell,
>>etc. to get a system w/o Windows.
>
>Are you just making this up or did someone actually do this before
>they started shipping Linux systems?
If you were a larger corporate buyer you could do this.
This wasn't available for the smaller consumer.
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:16:36 GMT
On 2 May 2000 20:56:29 GMT, Darren Winsper
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 May 2000 03:48:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Not trying to assume anything, but if YOU go to any computer club,
>
>I went to a computer club recently. Nearly everyone had heard of
>Linux, and a number had recently installed it. Most loved it, but had
>to keep Windows for certain applications.
>
>> strike up a chat at Compusa,
>
>I don't live in the US, but I have been to Software Warehouse and a
>number of the staff can't even use Windows properly, yet alone Linux.
>
>> strike up at chat at any trade show,
>> Computer show, ham fest etc, it will be YOU that is in the minority
>> and YOU that will spend countless time explaining Linux and what it is
>> about.
>
>Actually, you are likely to find numerous Linux users these days since
>the clueful ones are the ones going to the shows and the clueful ones
>seem to be the ones moving away from Windows.
>
>> It will be YOUR kids that will have to go in circles trying to find
>> software that conforms to their college standards.
I do fine dealing with such 'standards' in the professional
world without resulting to MSDogware. BTW, when did colleges
stop accepting (or rather prefering) hardcopy submissions?
Offices certainly aren't paperless yet. <snicker>
>
>I won't force an OS on my kids. Besides, by the time I have them (If I
>do), the computing world will be nothing like what it is today.
Young fresh minds should be exposed to as much information as
possible. That means that those few Apple II's that still may
be limping along should still be sitting in school computer
labs along side Mac+'s & XT's. Having the experience of running
DOS directly or through Win 3.x would give them a broader
perspective on current events.
>
>> It will be YOUR
>> kids that will have to explain Linux to all of the other kids as well
>> as teachers in their school that will most likely be running Windows.
>
>Yeah right. My school had Acorns, which used RISC OS.
Mine had Apple II's. 'mere mortals' had no problems learning the
interface. As with all things in education: motivation is the
ultimate issue. Young humans certainly don't need to be coddled
like old grannies when it comes to computers.
>
>> So if YOU wish to run Linux, that is great but understand that YOU are
>> in a small, very small in fact, minority that are excersising their
>> choice in operating systems.
>
>That minority is estimated at close to the market share of MacOS and is
>growing so rapidly it'll dwarf MacOS within the next year or so.
>
>This time last year, Linux was virtually unkown in my area. Today it's
>a very different story.
>
>> I prefer to ignore the os and get some work done that conforms to
>> accepted standards, meaning what everyone else is using.
>
>Which is just plain sad. "Oh, everyone's jumping off a cliff, it must
>be fun."
...the same lemming mentality that buried Macintosh in favor of DOS.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Kool Breeze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:40:31 -0400
On Tue, 02 May 2000 02:32:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>However, to believe for a moment that Linux could replace, or even
>co-exist with Windows in the home environment is a pipe dream fantasy
>of the Linux zealots.
Uh, we have been co-existing at home and work for 3 years. Linux is
our web and mail server.
------------------------------
From: mike list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:00:26 -0400
unicat wrote:
> Some people have noted a gross disparity in the treatment of
> individuals by the Justice Department.
>
> As an example, Mr. Bill Gates, who has already been found guilty
> of crimes which have caused billions of dollars in damage to his
> competitors, and is now merely awaiting sentencing, is allowed to
> come and go at his leisure in chauffered limousines.
>
> Then there is Elian Gonzales, an innocent little boy, whose only crime
> is being born hispanic, and he is considered so dangerous that he must
> be
> arrested by heavily armed members of Reno's Sturmgewehr.
>
> Is this justice? Is there any hope of equak treatment under the law.
> If there were, then this is what we would see next -
>
> http://etherzone.com/terr050100.html
>
> Remember, a vote for Clinton/Gore is a vote for a
> totalitarian police state!
Unlike a vote for "W". Heh. You may know much about computers/computing,
but your grasp of presidential candidates leaves something to be
achieved. EVERY POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE with the possible
exception of Alan Keyes is so tuned to polls and surveys , that they are
all by turns in favor of more rigid law enforcement, or enhanced civil
liberties, "pardon me, what was the question?".
Remember, a vote for (presidential candidate of your choice) is a vote
for a
totalitarian police state!
------------------------------
From: mike list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:21:54 -0400
>
>
> Unless they had knowledge that Elian was being abused or was in
> danger, they should have kept the peace. The raid is a huge
> emarassment to the US.
All in all, the US policy WRT Cuba is an embarassment. Pre communist Cuba was
not at all eglitarian, and by most accounts was largely run by the US Mafia(
I don't mean the federal government ). It was a good place for good fellas
to have a good time, but not much better, if at all than is the current
situation. Think about this, how many US soldiers were killed in wars caused
by Germany, Britain, Korea, Vietnam, etc. We have normalized relations with
all of those countries, unlike Cuba, who has not killed any US troops, unless
there really were govrnment provocateurs involved in the Bay of Pigs
debacle. I say bilaterally open the doors and allow the chips to fall as
they may.
>
>
> --
> The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Enjoy it more! 35107040
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:56:55 -0800
1. Unplug your phones/cell, etc.
2. Light some candles.
3. Turn off the lights.
4. Have a little to drink, not a lot
5. Put on some music.
http://www.go2xmax.com/3355
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:27:59 -0400
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Craig Kelley wrote:
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029) writes:
> > >
> > > > Elian is from a country that we have barred any type of trade with.
> > > > Nothing from Cuba is allowed in the U.S. My best friends dad and 2
> > > > sisters had to spend so amny months (6 i think) in the US to get
> > > > citizenship. His sister finished school early and went back home
> > > > and got stripped of her citizenship. Is that equal? Why should
> > > > Elian be allowed to stay in the States? He should have been back
> > > > the same day he arrived here.
> > >
> > > His mother died brining him here.
> >
> > So, that only means she did a poor job planning her trip. I don't mean
> > to be heartless, but, lets face it. It does not matter. How many mexican
> > mothers die trying to come to this country to have their children on our
> > soil so that their children will be citizens? How many mexicans die
> > trying to bring their children here?
>
> So have a heart then. Give in every once in a while. Elian's mother
> gave her life to get him here; that's a hearty endorsement for what
> she wanted for him and should count for at least as much as what his
> father wants.
When you think about how the woman kidnapped the son, and left the
country, should she have been american, she would be considered a
criminal.
>
> When you consider the stories of how his father didn't care for him at
> all when he lived in Cuba, and how his father is basically part of
> Castro's millitary regime, it becomes even more important to find the
> truth before "giving him back".
Frankly, sorry, I don't care. I have my worries, I have to watch out for
my child. I would not want anyone telling me how to raise my child, why
on earth should I think my government should attempt to tell someone
else?
> The Miam relatives only wanted a
> family court to decide his fate, is that so wrong?
Yes, it is VERY wrong! because they are not his parents. His father is
his parent, his father, with the death of the mother, should have
absolute say.
>
> > It is hipocracy, either we let everyone that wishes to be here, come
> > here, or we turn away everyone that comes in without proper visas.
>
> You obviously have never lived amongst the latin people in the US
> then. There is a very nice arrangement between them and the states
> they live in, in which they are allowed to come to the US unofficially
> to work. We are allowed to go to most latin countries, and they are
> allowed to come here more often than not (it may take a few jumps of
> the border if you're from Mexico).
Then why do we patrol our borders? Why do we send Mexicans back? Why do
we raid small companies that use illegal labor? Because it is illegal.
>
> I don't know about the other border states, but California's economy
> depends on "illegal" aliens.
And the CIA depends on drug running, so what? Does that mean it is not
wrong?
>
> And besides, who were the illegal aliens in 1492?
Yes, think about it. At least my ancestors can be traced back before
that.
>
> > Sending Elian back to Cuba with his father is far better than most of
> > the other things INS is forced to do by the letter of the law.
>
> Agreed, but the INS is only "forced" by we, the people...
Elian belongs with his father. I honestly believe that. Nothing can
change my mind about it. We, as a nation, have no right to tell a
foreign citizen how he is going to raise his child, which was kidnapped
and brought to this country. A 6 year old child is not old enough to ask
for asylum.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:24:04 GMT
Your experience is opposite mine. I have found networking
under Windows (Windows 95 in particular) to be maddeningly
difficult - or rather, mysterious. I set things up, and
sometimes it works, but often in says 'unable to browse the
network' - a typical microsoft error message completely devoid of
meaning. You can try the networking wizard, but it's insulting and
never helpful. Rebooting sometimes helps; sometimes rebooting
breaks it. Sometimes uninstalling and reinstalling the network
adaptor exactly the same way fixes it. Unfortunately, knowledge
is of no use in getting things to work, so instead you check
and uncheck things, and install and uninstall things,
but most of all, you reboot again and again and again until
Windows works or until you throw in the towel and switch over to
Linux. Windows home networking is trash, so I don't use it anymore.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
> Know how you do all of the above with Windows 98se or Win2k?
> Select internet connection sharing in help and the wizard does it all
> for you.
<snip>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
From: petilon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 15:36:24 -0700
JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dvorak also charges that Microsoft hires PR agencies to make
>> pro-Microsoft postings on on-line forums (which presumably
>> includes c.l.j.a)
>>
>
>Huh, so that must be where Dvorak got the 'squiggly underline
>spell checking' bit.
>
>Remember, you heard it here first Dvorak!
Microsoft has been ridiculed for the dancing paper clip
and the squiggly underline (which seem to be the only two
Microsoft "innovations") for aeons on this form:
http://x36.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=401935547
Remember, you heard it here first, JTK!
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
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