Linux-Advocacy Digest #572, Volume #26 Thu, 18 May 00 01:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Tholenbot... we should have the Templetonbot. (Marty)
Re: Things Linux can't do! ("Christopher Smith")
Re: Question (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Here is the solution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Familiarity of Windows for Linux! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Closed-mindedness and zeal... (was Re: Things Linux can't do!) (Christopher
Browne)
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Things Linux can't do! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Mongoose)
Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk (softrat)
Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Haakmatbot... we should have the Bergmanbot. (was Re: The
"outlook" for kooks) (tholenbot)
Re: But.... didn't they say it wasn't Outlook's fault? (Ciaran)
Re: Here is the solution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Tholenbot... we should have the Templetonbot.
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:21:44 GMT
Tony the Tiger wrote (using a pseudonym again):
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Myrat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
That article never appeared on my news server, Tony.
> > Lucky wrote (using a pseudonym again):
>
> Having more attribution problems, Myrat?
Obviously not.
> You can call me Al.
Changing your stripes around again, Tony?
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Myrat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Eric Templetonbot wrote (using a pseudotholen again):
> > >
> > > Having more attribution problems, Myrat?
> >
> > Not at all.
>
> On the contrary.
Still having trouble completing your sen
> Denial is not a river, Myrat.
How deliciously non sequitur, yet part of your complete breakfast.
> > Typical of your paranoia, however, considering how often you
> > declare that everyone is after your "Lucky Charms".
>
> Illogical, as I only have Cheerios and Cranberry Almond Crunch in my
> kitchen cabinet.
Incorrect.
> > > > > In article <3922db3e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Brian Lewis"
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "tholenbot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty
> > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Eric Bennett wrote (using a pseudotholen again):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <8fk3j9$8g4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Stephen S.
> > > > > > > > > Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anyone on USENET ever wishes to emulate Templeton, as
> > > > > > > > > > some seem take great pride and joy in emulating Dave
> > > > > > > > > > Tholen
> > > > > > > > > > (whom I know nothing of, outside of the opinions of
> > > > > > > > > > others),
> > > > > > > > > > just simply follow these steps:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Illogical. The true home of the tholenbot is
> > > > > > > > > comp.os.os2.advocacy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Incorrect. How typical.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Evidence, please.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > $19.95 please (shipping and handling fees.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jumping into a discussion, again, Brian?
> > > >
> > > > See what he means?
> > >
> > > How predictable, coming from someone having attribution problems.
> >
> > See what I mean?
> >
> > I see you've taken the liberty
>
> How does one "take liberty", Myrat?
Still having reading comprehension problems? Haven't you been paying
attention?
> > of removing more context.
>
> Non sequitur.
On the contrary, quite sequitur, given your context removal.
> > Taking more context removal lessons from Dave "Watergate" Tholen?
>
> Why don't you ask Eric "Master of Forgery" Bennett what Cornell
> University thinks of him posting under a false identity?
Unnecessary. Meanwhile I see you're posting from borg.com again. Taking
posting from borg.com lessons from Joe "borg.com" Malloy?
> > I'll restore it for you:
>
> How ironic that you would defend someone who jumped into a discussion,
Where have I allegedly done that?
> given that you make accusations of jumpings into discussion.
You're erroneously presupposing that I would defend someone who jumped into a
discussion.
> > > > > > > Tholenbot always picks the right newsgroup for the
> > > > > > > job. Sometimes that is COOA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The right "newsgroup"? How rich!
> > > > >
> > > > > On what basis do you claim that the "newsgroup" is "rich"?
> > > >
> > > > Taking jumping into discussion lessons from Curtis Bass again, Brian?
> >
> > Note: no response.
>
> Incorrect.
See what I mean?
> > > > I see you failed to answer the question.
> > >
> > > Incorrect.
>
> Note: no response.
Balderdash.
> > > > > How predictable.
> > > >
> > > > How ironic.
> > >
> > > Balderdash.
> >
> > I see you're still too busy tending Chris Pott's Balderdash garden to
> > form a logical argument.
>
> Seeing things that aren't there again?
Obviously not.
> No surprise there.
Your threshold for surprise is irrelevant.
> > No surprise there.
>
> Common sense makes a cameo appearance.
Incorrect.
> > > > > > > > At least you made no attempt to conceal your own
> > > > > > > > misinformation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What alleged "misinformation"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why, don't you know?
> > > > >
> > > > > I see that,
> > > >
> > > > What you see is irrelevant, especially given your dirty glasses.
> > >
> > > "Your dirty glasses" are not a given.
> >
> > Non sequitur.
>
> More evidence of your reading comprehension problems.
Impossible.
> > > > > in typical Brian "I Don't Answer the Question" Lewis
> > > > > fashion, you didn't answer the question.
> > > >
> > > > How ironic, coming from someone who, in a typical Brian "I Don't
> > > > Answer the Question" Lewis fashion, failed to answer the question.
> > >
> > > Illogical.
> >
> > Not at all, Lucky.
>
> Who?
Ask your orange stars.
> > > > > > > > > On what basis do you claim that the lunatic is "on the
> > > > > > > > > grass"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask your grasshopper
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The grasshopper is in my head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What alleged "head"?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you hadn't jumped into the discussion,
> > > >
> > > > The key word is "if".
> > >
> > > What is "key" about that word?
> >
> > Ask your red balloons.
>
> What alleged "red balloons"?
Haven't you been paying attention?
> Meanwhile, you still fail to ask your purple horseshoe.
Liar.
> > > > > you would have recognized the correct head.
> > > >
> > > > You are presupposing that he has "jumped into the discussion".
> > >
> > > I see you fail to dispute that he jumped into the discussion.
> >
> > Illogical, as I have not attempted to dispute that he jumped into the
> > discussion.
>
> Why is it illogical for me to make a correct factual observation?
You are presupposing that you made a correct factual observation.
> > Yet more evidence of your reading comprehension problems.
>
> How ironic.
Not at all, Tony.
> > > > > > > On what basis do you claim that the lunatic is "on the grass"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Illogical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet again you fail to answer the question.
> > > >
> > > > How ironic, coming from someone who yet again failed to answer the
> > > > question.
> > >
> > > Impossible.
> >
> > On what basis do you make this ridiculous newgroup?
>
> Liar.
See what I mean?
> > > > > Of course, that is to be expected, coming from you.
> > > >
> > > > As your illogic is to be expected, coming from you.
> > >
> > > Illogical.
> >
> > See what I mean?
>
> Your meaning is illogical.
Impossible. More evidence of your "what I mean" recognition problems.
> > > > > Prove that there must be fifty ways to leave your lover, if you
> > > > > think you can.
> > > >
> > > > How ironic, coming from someone who just "slipped out the back,
> > > > Jack".
> > >
> > > I see you continue to hop on the illogic bus.
> >
> > Seeing things that aren't there again, Lucky?
>
> Who?
Don't you know?
> Meanwhile, you fail to address your hopping on the illogic bus.
And for good reason.
> > Not surprising, considering your failure to drop off the key, Lucky.
>
> Still advising Lee to eat his green clovers, Myrat?
Who?
> Illogical.
So why did you say it then?
> > > Prove that there must be fifty ways to leave your lover, if you think
> > > you can.
> >
> > Yet more evidence of your reading comprehension problems.
>
> On what basis do you make this erroneous and unsubstantiated claim?
You are erroneously presupposing (without substantiation) that I made an
erroneous and unsubstantiated claim. How ironic.
> Prove that there must be fifty ways to leave your lover, if you think you can.
Why? There's no need to be coy, Tony.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Things Linux can't do!
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:34:50 +1000
"Perry Pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Thu, 18 May 2000 02:03:23 +1000,
> Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=623637730
> >> http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=623940112
> >
> >I'm afraid I can't see any lies there. Perhaps you'd care to post the
> >specific parts you're referring to ?
>
> I already did at
>
> http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=624137505
>
> To which he never responded.
Presumably you refer to the "I have seen a lot of BSODs in my time, and in
every single
instance, [...]" quote ?
Note that he is talking about the BSODs *he* has seen "in his time".
I can quite easily agree with that. All the BSODs I have personal
experience with were also hardware and/or driver related.
I can say almost the same thing about Linux. Nearly every Linux crash I've
witnessed was due to bad hardware and/or drivers.
> >> Now you're stooping to insults.
> >
> >You call _that_ an insult ? Sheesh, how did you get through school ? :)
>
> You are defending his insult with another insult. Do you guys play tag
team??
Again, that's hardly an insult.
Really, if your sensibilities are so easily offended, .advocacy is not the
place for you.
I rarely insult people. Believe me, I've got a long tether to reach the end
of before I start doing that.
> >> >: http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=624188730
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps. I can easily say the exact same thing about you.
> >>
> >> Show me where. Give a reference to one of my posts were I act in such
> >> an arrogant way as you act towards all users of an OS.
> >
> >One does not need to act in an arrogant manner towards "all users of an
OS"
> >to be prejudiced.
>
> Well then show me where I'm prejudiced. Specifically reference some of
> my posts as your proof.
Sorry, I have neither the time nor inclination to go trawling though Deja to
find what are essentially petty accusations.
Someone else, however, might want to.
> >However, I do not see Stephen condeming all Linux users, merely the
zealots
>
> Anyone he disagrees with enough he labels a zealot.
Usually they are. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head he has
referred to as a zealot that I wouldn't be in total agreement with.
I'm sure you'd be happy to provide a counter-example, though :D.
> >(whom are, unfortunately, the most commonly noticed). Indeed, some of us
> >can even remember when Stephen *was* a Linux zealot :).
>
> Zealotry is an aspect of one's personality, not whatever one cause one
> follows.
I would have to disagree with that. I know people who are passionate about
the brand of car they own, but couldn't care less about the label on their
stereo. And vice versa.
It's quite easy for zealotry to disappear as maturity digs in its claws.
OTOH, it's also quite easy for it to be enhanced.
> So when a zealot of one cause changes to another cause, or
> even the exact opposite cause, he tends to remain a zealot.
I'm afraid I haven't seen this to be true in Stephen's case. Although
again, I'm sure you'd be happy to provide examples.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 17 May 2000 23:28:38 -0500
In article <rtFU4.371$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Raul Valero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What does prevent Microsoft selling its own Linux distribution with
>integrated browser (may even be IE), bonus packages (like Office)
>and a propietary installed (as most distros do) ? Then, wouldn't this
>be as monopolistic as Windows ? Just asking for opinion.
They could, but they would have to do it better than everyone
else or use compatibilty with their installed base as the
reason to buy it.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Here is the solution
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:18:23 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Define "perfectly well". Can it play Q3? Run Photoshop or The Gimp?
Perhaps when you get to be more serious about using computers, you will
realize that your computer can be used for more than as a Lintendo, or
editting the occasional picture, and browsing the occasional web page.
> Run at 1280x1024x24 bits without slowdown?
No problem. A number of accelerated PCI adpaters are supported on VMS.
> Network at standard 100baseT?
Most VMS installations come with gigabit ethernet or fiber. DECnet
performs much better than TCP/IP on gigabit and faster installations
because it is not limited to such a low MTU as TCP/IP is.
> Easily dial via PPP with a normal modem?
Some of my VAX'es have 16 serial ports, and many VMS installations
(including some of mine at home) also have terminal servers attached.
Modem access is no problem. I find that many VAX'es were formally used
as dial-in servers. Of course, most VMS installations have a nicer
connection to the internet, such as a T3.
> Include normal 16 bit sound?
Sure. Most (if not all) of the Alpha installations contain sound.
> A BookPC + Celeron 533 + 8G hard drive + 64M RAM does all this, and
> for about $400.
I bought _two_ MicroVAX 3900's with 8 GB of SCSI (not IDE as the above
machine no doubt has) disk, 32 M of RAM, built-in ethernet, a bunch of
terminals, wordclass industrial strength software, all for about $200.
> So, who would bother with VMS? Why?
Mainly for the programming environment. VMS has the world's best
development tools. As I said, if you are interested in playing the
latest games, and writing the occasional memo, then you should probably
stick with Linux as VMS won't be for you.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Familiarity of Windows for Linux!
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:32:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on 17 May 2000 12:32:07 -0500 <8ful2n$2ida$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Aakre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> Chris> We need to bring the familiarity of windows to
>> Chris> linux... lets have a daemon that automatically crashes
>> Chris> linux every 10-15 minutes!! Then it will be more familiar
>> Chris> for all you ex-windowers, so you won't get scared when you
>> Chris> linux box stays online for weeks, even months! I'm sure
>> Chris> this will go along well with all you ex-microsoft
>>
>>Grab the bluescreen (I did this with VMWare) or make up your own one.
>>Then use 'xlock -mode image' to do it. Isn't that blue screen a
>>screensaver (screen killer, indeed)?
>
>Mandrake (and maybe others) comes with a blue-screen as one of
>the included choices for the KDE screensaver.
Actually, it's not only a BSOD, if I'm not mistaken. It has
visually recreated:
- an example NT BSOD
- an example Win95 BSOD (read the hex dump carefully on this one)
- an Apple Macintosh bomb
- a kernel panic
- an Amiga "Guru Meditation" message
and a few other "crashes" which I can't exactly identify.
It's rather cute, and definitely amusing. (However, the
clueless newbie should probably be careful, lest he think
his computer is doing something peculiar. :-) )
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- "Wow, your computer crashes a lot and reboots real fast!"
"Nawww...that's just a screensaver."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Closed-mindedness and zeal... (was Re: Things Linux can't do!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:34:07 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Christopher Smith would say:
>"Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8fvddj$phq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Half true. The kernel is also partially based on the Carnegie Mellon MACH
>> microkernel, as well as being based partially on FreeBSD v3.2.
>
>No, the kernel is a straight Mach derivative. I believe it is even referred
>to as Mach 3.0.
>
>The BSD part comes in above that - I believe the Mach people refer to them
>as "personalities" - like the Win32, POSIX and OS/2 layers on top of the NT
>kernel.
That sounds pretty fair.
>> The name
>> for the core running underneath MacOS X is known as "Darwin". It's going
>> to be OpenSource software (at least, that was the situation when I last
>> read about it), and it promises to be one heck of a kickass operating
>> system for graphics applications. Let's hope Apple gets things like SMP
>> right with this one.
>
>SMP ain't easy to get right, even after many tries. My guess is the first
>few versions won't be too hot.
I can go along with that...
Microkernels have been _claimed_ to be a wonderful thing to support
SMP just _wonderfully_. Unfortunately, actual successful deployments
seem a whole lot less common than successful research grants...
>> The WindowsNT kernel is similar, in that it too is partially derived from
>> the MACH microkernel.
>
>I don't think it's "derived" in any way except the conceptual design. Any
>documentation to the contrary would be welcome.
The former head of the Mach project is now the VP heading up
Microsoft Research.
As a result, there's nobody left to really gainsay Microsoft on any
claims on the matter.
And the only time I've seen claims of NT being "derived from Mach" have
been:
a) Articles in Byte Magazine back at the time of NT 3.1, and
b) Articles on Usenet.
Neither of which represent sources I'd bet my life on.
There is rather more evidence to suggest that NT is at its base
based on the design concepts from VMS and the (somewhat fabled)
Digital "Prism" project, cancelled in 1988.
(It is interesting to note that Prism was to be a MIPS-based OS; Digital
had been deploying MIPS-based Ultrix systems. Note that the initial
platform on which NT was deployed was... Da da! MIPS.)
"Inside Windows NT" _mentions_ Mach, and makes vague comments to the
effect that Mach was a microkernel system, and NT has a merged
architecture combining some microkernel attributes with those of a
"layered" OS.
Microsoft's own notes on the matter describe NT as "akin to Mach,"
but the genealogy is only suggestive of inheriting characteristics
from VMS.
Based on what Microsoft's web site indicates, I just can't take claims
that NT is based on Mach code terribly seriously. Microsoft makes no
claims of the sort.
--
"Microsoft builds product loyalty on the part of network
administrators and consultants, [these are] the only people who really
count in the Microsoft scheme of things. Users are an expendable
commodity." -- Mitch Stone 1997
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: 17 May 2000 23:32:42 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Your printer configuration *is* stored in /etc; just the spool
>directories are in /var. If you use a good spooler (bsd print spooler
>doesn't count here, of course), it'll re-create them from
>/etc/printcap just fine. LPRng includes checkpc, which will create
>the spools using /etc/printcap.
Redhat puts the filters installed via the printtool setup into
the per-printer spool directory. But, if you remember how
you filled in the printool form it is easy to reconstruct
this from scratch.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Things Linux can't do!
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:32:08 GMT
In article <8fuipm$2cd4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote:
> Yes, I was going to point this out too. Someone whose last
> contact with Linux was an old Slackware or RedHat 4.1 would
> be shocked to see a Mandrake 7.0 install. By contrast, installing
> Win NT is still just as bad because the distribution hasn't
> changed, the CD still doesn't boot, and you need a bigger service
> pack add-on now.
Strange how Linux users have no problem using this on me w.r.t VMS.
Many of the posters who have criticized of VMS have not even used VMS
since version 5, when it was still using Motif, had rudimentary cluster
support, and was not yet available on Alpha's. Yet they have no
problems criticizing VMS on these 10 year old observations.
In the last four years, VMS has advanced considerably more than Linux
has. But not very many people have seen it because Compaq has this
insane marketing strategy that people will actually find out about the
best products.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:49:10 GMT
On Thu, 18 May 2000 01:00:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> So what is the problem with doing this in the KDE desktop?
>
>KDE isn't free.
uh what? I don't remember paying for KDE...
------------------------------
From: softrat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:54:55 -0700
John Hasler wrote:
>
> Gunter writes:
> > The Mafia is outlawed in the US of A.
>
> No organization is outlawed in the USA.
> --
> John Hasler
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, WI
Nonsense. Any organization which advocates the violent overthrow of the
government is illegal, i.e., outlawed.
--
the softrat
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Go ahead, Linux freaks, abuse me. I LOVE it!
------------------------------
From: tholenbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Haakmatbot... we should have the Bergmanbot. (was Re:
The "outlook" for kooks)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:55:53 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Eric Haakmat wrote (using a green clover again):
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > [PS: On Netscape 4.61 w/ Java 1.1.8 for OS/2, there's no way to see a
> > > list of choices or answer the question. I can only just keep hitting
> > > the "PLAY/TRAIN" button to cycle through a few quotes.]
> >
> > Obviously you are not using the best tool for the job.
>
> Incorrect.
See what I mean?
> > How predictable.
>
> How predictable for you to expect me to jump to a conclusion about what
> "the
> job" is.
Reading comprehension problems? I have not "jump"ed.
> I'd prefer to stick to the facts.
What you prefer is irrelevant. What you can prove is relevant.
> > Prove that there must be fifty ways to leave your lover, if you think
> > you can.
>
> Haven't you been paying attention?
How ironic.
> Or have you been too busy making a
> new
> plan, Stan?
Don't you know? Meanwhile, I see that you continue to fail to call me
Al.
--
On what basis do you claim "this is the end, my only friend, the end"?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: But.... didn't they say it wasn't Outlook's fault?
From: Ciaran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:54:49 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bobby D.
Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Alan Boyd wrote:
>
>> (I hope it was NewSpeak, that's how I remember it.)
>
>Wasn't it "doublespeak"?
No it was doublethink. Your memory about 1984 is
doubleplusungood :)
Cheers,
Ciaran
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Here is the solution
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:53:29 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The notion that the machines or software is cheap or free is only
> true so long as the only people going after these machines are a
> small population of "daft tinkerers." (Parallelling the "daft
> tinkerers" that want to port Linux to NeXT cubes, Vaxes, and such.
> It's not just VMS folk that are daft...)
And that is largely what I am advocating VMS for. Linux is supposed to
be for hobbyists, people who are interested in programming and in
computer hardware. When some Linux user tells me VMS is crap because
his favorite video game is not available for it (as a parent poster
did), well, that kind of puts into the light what Linux people are
really all about. I'm a daft tinkerer with VMS, but I'm practical too.
> If 50,000 would-be home users started looking for Vaxen to run VMS
> clusters at home, you'd see the prices of used machines move back up.
> At Ebay, there appears to be _one_ VAX for sale, that one being
> one that was originally priced at around $900K, for use aboard a
> military aircraft, bidding at about $500. With marketplaces like
> that, if people wanted 'em, the prices would rise. (Probably not to
> $900K, admittedly!)
As for the eBay thing: You need to search for "MicroVAX"
and "VAXstation" instead of just "VAX". Some of these are among the
best machines ever built. It is not at all unreasonable for a home user
to have a VAXstation 4000 or a MicroVAX 3100 in his home. Some of the
larger MicroVAX'es, VAX'es, and Alpha's, only an enthusiant would want.
But, more importantly, VMS is also available for Alpha. Things like DEC
3000's are a dime a dozen these days (and have the added feature that
they are incapable of running Linux, which, sadly, devalues them a
bit). Multia's are also capable of running VMS. These are small,
inexpensive machines.
> The years of the "Microsoft Hegemony" have been about as bad as the
> times of the "IBM Hegemony." Unfortunately, in despising Microsoft,
> seeing UNIX as the only persistent alternative leaves the risk of
> abandoning one tyranny for another. All of the following options
> are pretty bad:
> a) A world where there are only IBM computers, IBM compilers,
> IBM peripherals, ...
> b) A world where there are only Microsoft operating systems,
> Microsoft applications, Microsoft certifications, ...
> c) A world where all OSes are modelled after UNIX.
Thank you. Next time I'm in Dallas I'll buy you a beer. I didn't
realize that you understood this. And this is really what I've been
trying to get at all along.
> I _can't_ see VMS making a serious comeback; too many pieces have
> flown away, between RDB, David Cutler, and various Digital downsizings
> between then and now.
VMS sales, in Europe, grew 69% last year.
> To an extent, tsm is a bit _foolish_ to suggest that VMS should
> be reasonably suggested for home use. There are a variety of
> reasons why it would be hard to make that work:
> - Users have to search for cast-off equipment, which is hardly a
> general solution;
On your website you have a page dedicated to the Multia, and you give
it a half-positive review. This machine runs VMS just fine (and, in
fact, is one of the VMS machines I have at home). These things are a
dime a dozen, and are easily accessible and very well-supported in the
secondary market.
> - Training, "user-friendly WIMP software," and Helpful Experts
> may prove a mite difficult to come by;
I have the gray wall for VMS 5 in my home computer room, which probably
has 100x as much information as all of the Linux HOWTO's combined.
There is userfriendly software with CDE; the command line system
management tools in VMS are far friendlier than in Linux.
> - The electrical and cooling bills would be horrendous.
Only for the big VAX'es and Alpha's. The small machines such as
Multia's do not have big power and heat requirements, obviously.
> - DCL sucks (I guess that's two "bashes")
Perhaps, but it is still considerably better than the Unix shells and
the Windows shells. Certainly more powerful and more user-friendly, at
least.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
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