Linux-Advocacy Digest #362, Volume #28 Sat, 12 Aug 00 14:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Gutenberg (Jacques Guy)
Re: kernel httpd (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company (Karel Jansens)
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company (Karel Jansens)
there are plenty of good paradigms (Richard)
Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?) (Matthias Warkus)
Re: FAQ for c.o.m.n.a Now Available! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (Pan)
Re: Gutenberg (Courageous)
Re: ATTN: REX BALLARD: Microsoft's contracts not volountary (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: ATTN: REX BALLARD: Microsoft's contracts not volountary (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:09:38 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Gutenberg
Arthur Frain wrote:
> But for someone arguing that Gutenberg was not
> an innovator, it would be more interesting to
> explain why no books were printed *before*
> Gutenberg.
Well, books were printed before Gutenberg, but in
Korea. Koreans were the first to invent movable
type and use it, in the 12th century, if memory
serves. Some argue that movable type was invented
much earlier, probably in Crete. Do a search
on "Phaistos disk" and find out. Fascinating
stuff.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: kernel httpd
Date: 12 Aug 2000 12:45:07 GMT
On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:19:46 GMT, Christopher Browne wrote:
>Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Gary Hallock would say:
>_IF_ you have a server that gets _SO MUCH_ traffic that "khttpd"
>will make a significant difference, _then_, and _ONLY THEN_, would
>it make sense to go through the effort of:
... Using multiple servers with apache ! (-;
--
Donovan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 14:46:19 +0200
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Marty wrote:
>
> Karel Jansens wrote:
> >
> > JS/PL wrote:
> > >
> > > "ZnU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > Are you really claiming that Windows is the highest quality operating
> > > > system out there?
> > >
> > > Well... I just finished a two day exploration of Mandrake 7.1 (Linux),
> > > needless to say...it's got nothing on the elegance and speed of MS Win2k.
> >
> > Given the level of intelligence of your other posts in this group, you
> > probably spent two days staring at the CD-ROMs, wondering what you were
> > supposed to do with them.
> >
> > Here's a clue: It's not a cup holder.
>
> Whoa, Karel... where did those balls come from? Are you borrowing them from a
> friend?
I just got fed up with the dishonesty and genereal FUD-level of
his/her/its posts. Even an ancient beast like S.u.S.E. 5.3 (Geek alert:
Notice how I put the dots in there? SuSE only dropped them after their
5.3 release) compares favourable to that w2000 monster in terms of
burden on hardware, applications available right out of the box,
flexibility, even available drivers for gassake. The only thing w2000
scores in is that it can be installed by a total moron (provided said
moron knows how to operate a mouse and made the mental link between
clicking the left mouse button and the depressing action of a button on
the screen). But given the target market for w2000, that's an extremely
stupid point to score.
In fact, one could argue that this JS/PL character/committee/bot
publicly admitted he/she/it prefers w2000 for exactly that reason, in
which case my reply might actually be considered helpful <G>.
In short: sometimes I get testy...
--
Karel Jansens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
========================================================
"I laugh in the face of danger.
I drop icecubes down the vest of fear."
(Edmund Blackadder III)
========================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 22:37:33 +0200
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
"Se�n � Donnchadha" wrote:
>
> Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> No credibility? Say's who? You?
> >> Best PC Operating System of 2000
> >> http://www.pcworld.com/top400/article/0,1361,16789+1+2,00.html
> >>
> >> Windows2000 wins over the mobile workforce
> >> http://www.informationweek.com/790/notebook.htm
> >>
> >> A wealth of well-integrated tools and technologies make the Microsoft
> >> platform a compelling choice for the enterprise...
> >> http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise/stories/main/0,10228,2551183,00.html
> >>
> >> Giga Position
> >> The Windows 2000 platform will be two to 10 times more reliable than any
> >> prior 1.0 release of either the Windows desktop or server operating
> >> system...
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/news/external/gigasunbelt.asp
> >>
> >> Microsoft's Windows 2000 Professional operating system-- slated to hit
> >> stores Feb. 17 -- is a sharp-looking upgrade boasting several
> >> well-thought-out improvements....
> >> http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/crg882.htm
> >>
> >> Windows 2000 Server: Worth The Wait
> >> By ALAN ZEICHICK
> >> It's here, at long last--Windows 2000 Server. With this major upgrade to its
> >> flagship operating system line...
> >> http://www.internetwk.com/lead/lead012500.htm
> >>
> >> Popular Mechanics Design & Engineering Awards. Over the years, the Awards
> >> have become one of the most prestigious forms of recognition for achievement
> >> in engineering...
> >> http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/elect/9912TUDEAWARDSP.html
> >>
> >> For any size of business, Windows 2000 has the right stuff, both as a
> >> workstation and as a server...
> >> http://www.cnet.com/software/0-1497797-7-1498886.html?tag=st.sw.3662.prl.149
> >> 7797-7-1498886
> >>
> >> Windows 2000 Professional will be the best desktop operating system
> >> Microsoft has ever released for the business user. Start planning now to
> >> roll it out as soon as you can...
> >> http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/nt/1129nt1.html
> >>
> >> More accolades available upon request....
> >
> >Only an absolute twit and ignoramus would have the audacity in this day
> >and age to quote computer magazines to prove his point that Microsoft
> >sells superior software.
> >
>
> Popular Mechanics is a computer magazine? USA Today is a computer
> magazine? The Giga Group Report is a computer magazine?
>
And that's supposed to make it better? Couldn't you find an article in
Cosmo that praises the virtues of Microsoft? Or maybe an in-depth
interview on Sesame Street?
> By the way, who do you think he *SHOULD* quote to prove his point?
> You? Microsoft's competitors? The wackos on Slashdot?
>
Simple: any quote that claims Microsoft and/or Windows (in whatever
incarnation) are a-OK is to be considered suspect and the source should
be looked at with extreme distrust.
Microsoft has engaged in illegal and counter-competitive monopolistic
actions; it's operating environments/systems are by no means on a par
with other products. Anyone claiming the opposite obviously has alterior
motives to do so.
This must now be considered an axiom, and no longer requires additional
proof.
> In my view, no opinions speak louder than those of people who've
> learned to respect Microsoft's software development only after
> spending years trying to do a better job:
>
> www.objectwatch.com
> http://slashdot.org/articles/00/07/20/1255251.shtml
... and in the view of all the sensible people on this planet, nothing
squeals louder than Microsoft money, desperately trying to buy back some
credibility. It still works, but the suckers who fall for it are getting
dumber every day.
--
Karel Jansens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
========================================================
"I laugh in the face of danger.
I drop icecubes down the vest of fear."
(Edmund Blackadder III)
========================================================
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: there are plenty of good paradigms
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:30:53 GMT
"Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
> In my experience Mike, people absolutely _hate_ having to learn
> an entirely new interface when changes are made, even if it's
> a change that they are all for making.
>
> I don't think Linux/X development is actively seeking to clone
> the Windows way... I just think that since the Windows way is
> so prevelant, that it's what people are familiar with.
>
> I don't know about you, but I for one find the shattering of
> long time paradigms to be a most difficult task. :-)
This is correct as far as it goes. But Gibson's cyberspace (and I
mean flashing lights off in the distance, not the crap the marketing
droids *call* cyberspace) is a paradigm many people are familiar with.
So is the MUD paradigm of rooms and objects. So there *are* superior
(more powerful, more intuitive) user interface paradigms that are
going unused just because of the narrow-mindedness on the part of
user interface designers and implementors. Hell, *reality* is another
paradigm that user interface people are too dumb to exploit; think
of a 3D box with a big red button on top of it as a way to visualize
an executable program (no need for the "point and click" paradigm!).
It's not a poverty of good paradigms we suffer from, it's idiocy on
the part of the people who choose the paradigm to inflict on users.
You have to remember that programmers are *gods* with respect to
software, so set your ambitions and expectations accordingly.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:16:39 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:01:13 -0300...
...and Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, you don't have a @kde.org email address, or you would have heard.
> I still get DAILY about 5 emails insulting me for being a vocal KDE
> advocate. Ever got that kind of thing from KDE users/developers?
Maybe that'll happen now that I've got a @gnome.org address (I'm just
starting to advertise it). Who knows.
> I have been getting that for 3 fucking years already.
>
> > At this and the previous LinuxTag, we heard KDE people, including
> > major contributors, say things along the line of "there is no real
> > need for two desktops", "KDE is the standard", whatever... Makes
> > me puke, just like the licensing discussions where people try to
> > invalidate all KDE efforts by shouting "non-free, non-free" all
> > over the place. Obviously the world would be better if KDE
> > wouldn't depend on anything non-GPL (it would save lots of
> > bandwidth if nothing else), but I can live with the status quo.
>
> How abou this: I have never seen a KDE guy go and actively troll the
> gnome development IRC channel for two weeks asking anyone who joined
> "wouldn't you prefer to join KDE instead?" and whining about the
> evil GNOME.
>
> I have seen Miguel do exactly that in #kde.
I don't care about IRC.
> I have never seen any KDE guy call GNOME a threat against freedom,
> and I have seen RMS (your ideological leader?) say that about KDE.
And I don't care about "ideological leaders" either, because I make my
ideology myself.
> Besides, I will just say what I said when GNOME was created: doing a
> Qt clone would have been smarter. And the reason given ("bad
> choices") has been largely discredited. Specially because of never
> saying what those bad choices were.
>
> In that sense, GNOME indeed has been (IMHO) useless effort.
In short, you'd like KDE to monopolise Unix desktop infrastructures,
no matter how disastrous the results... We all know what happens when
a monopoly runs a software product into a dead end of design flaws,
after all.
[snip]
Arguing with you obviously is a very useless effort.
Show's over.
*PLONK*
mawa
--
I'm always looking for a new idea that
will be more productive than its cost.
-- David Rockefeller
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: FAQ for c.o.m.n.a Now Available!
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:16:19 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Otto
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:19:35 GMT
<bS%k5.17057$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>: On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:37:31 +0100, Robert Moir wrote:
>:
>: >> It is competitive. MS isn't. They squash everyone they can...
>: >
>: >Isn't that competition? The idea is to *beat* your opponent after all,
>: >doesn't matter if its to the sale, the launch date, the football...
>:
>: Sure, you have to beat them. But there are rules that you have to play
>: by. If you break them, the umpire will blow the
>: whistle on you. Guess what ? The whistle has been blown on Microsoft.
>
>To stay with football, the empire is watching the replay since the ruling
>has been challenged. Furthermore, no team ever won anything by relying on
>the empire. Good offense and defense on the other hand can win, even if the
>whistle is blown frequently.
>Interpret the above the way you like....
Um...dude...I think you mean 'umpire'.... :-)
>
>Otto
>
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- use the force against the opposing players, not
the umpire :-)
------------------------------
From: Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:37:35 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Strange to think how what started out as a fairly interesting thread has
turned into nothing more than a pissing contest between you and Loren.
WTF do your personal attacks have to do with anything resembling Linux,
libertarianism, or politics? If all you are going to do is is insult
each other, perhaps it's time for the 2 of you to consider switching to
email or at least to alt.we.can't.keep.our disagreements.civil
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> MK wrote:
> >
> > On 3 Aug 2000 17:44:30 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
> >
> > >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > >Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Loren Petrich wrote:
> > >
> > >>> * Businesses also have bureaucracies. And sometimes very obnoxious
> > >>> bureaucracies.
> > >>Big deal. They can't do a thing when you say the two magic words:
> > >>"I quit!"
> > >
> > > However, if all the alternatives are equally bad, then
> > >love-it-or-leave-it won't help.
> >
> > But apparently you see nothing wrong with taxes being constructed
> > on basis of "love it or leave it".
> >
> > It's just voluntary work for many other businesses that is no alternative.
> > OTOH, in your world tax is actually real alternative and if you don't
> > like it, leave the country -- the fact that it is not an option for most
> > of people (as opposed to changing job being a realistic option much
> > of the time in their lives) all of a sudden doesn't matter.
> >
> > Obligatory Is Voluntary.
> >
> > >>> * One can always move to another country.
> > >>Ever try it?
> > >
> > > I've half-thought of doing so if some right-wing fascists take over.
> >
> > Why, if they built lots of "socialist roads" like Hitler actually did? Fascism
> > is too much of socialism for you to leave.
>
> Petrich doesn't like roads, because those evil CARS drive on them.
>
> >
> > MK
> >
> > ---
> >
> > The fundamental practice of politics is creating ideology of a noble goal that
>justifies theft.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> J: Loren's Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
> C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
> D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
> E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
> F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
> G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> H: Knackos...you're a retard.
--
Salvador Peralta
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Gutenberg
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 17:48:33 GMT
> Well, books were printed before Gutenberg, but in
> Korea. Koreans were the first to invent movable
> type and use it, in the 12th century,...
Everyone knows that only Europe counts when caucasians
are discussing who invented what. Come on! :)
Anyway, thanks for the tidbit. I didn't know that.
C//
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,soc.singles,alt.society.anarchy,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: ATTN: REX BALLARD: Microsoft's contracts not volountary
Date: 12 Aug 2000 17:58:59 GMT
On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:09:12 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> Proof by example ? Now you're really hand waving.
[ hand waving snipped ]
>If there were 3x as many Unix admins in this country, Windows would die.
Interesting conjecture. On that logic, Linux should have already killed
the other UNIXs long ago.
There's more to "network effects" than availability of admins.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,soc.singles,alt.society.anarchy,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: ATTN: REX BALLARD: Microsoft's contracts not volountary
Date: 12 Aug 2000 17:58:59 GMT
On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:09:12 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> Proof by example ? Now you're really hand waving.
[ hand waving snipped ]
>If there were 3x as many Unix admins in this country, Windows would die.
Interesting conjecture. On that logic, Linux should have already killed
the other UNIXs long ago.
There's more to "network effects" than availability of admins.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
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