Linux-Advocacy Digest #447, Volume #28 Thu, 17 Aug 00 01:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Joseph)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Lee Hollaar)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Joseph)
Re: I'm out of here. Best wishes to all of you!
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous Windtrolls
and Authentic Linvocates)
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous Wintrolls
and Authentic Linvocates)
Linux Presidential Candidates? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company (Joseph)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Isaac)
Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:43:39 -0700
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Christopher Smith wrote:
>"rj friedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:04:02 "Christopher Smith"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> �...since I disgree with the law in principle and consider
>> �most of the evidence to be irrelevant, it's hardly surprising I have a
>> �different opinion to you, no ?
>>
>> The United States of America - and the European Common
>> Market - and China - and Japan - and India - all say that
>> your 'different opinion' is full of shit.
>
>You mean, their legal systems. I sincerely doubt everyone in those
>countries agrees on that point.
Duh.
>I fear I've been too subtle in trying to say arguments along the line of
>"but they broke the law" don't carry too much weight with me.
Then let me be clear - your opinion has NO weight. why? You don't like the
laws and you ignore the principles on which we establish facts and truth.
Fine. Okay.
It is very important to understand how extreme and unreasonable one has to be
to hold your pro MS beliefs.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Hollaar)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 17 Aug 2000 03:53:36 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Said Lee Hollaar in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>>I don't attach any more meaning to 117's "utilization" than
>>>"utilization". Running is certainly one form of utilization.
>>>Decompiling is another.
>>
>> Section 117 does not purport to protect a user who disassembles object
>> code, converts it from assembly into source code, and makes printouts
>> and photocopies of the refined source code version.
>>_Sega v. Accolade_, 24 USPQ2d 1561, 977 F2d 1510 (Ninth Circuit, 1992)
>>
>>(TMax claims to have read this case, but I guess he rejected the court's
>>comment because it wasn't "cogent", or fit within his unique theory of
>>copyright.)
>
>Well, Mr. "I'm a legal expert", perhaps you missed the fact that "making
>printouts and photocopies" is a violation of copyright law. Are you
>trying to say (or merely assuming) that disassembly and conversion to
>source code is not "utilization"?
Good. At least you seem to understand now that _Sega v. Accolade_
is a copyright case, rather than a trademark case like you said it
was. (Although the court does address the trick Sega used to protect
their console from unauthorized games by trademark, saying that they
were the infringers if anybody was.)
Generally, when somebody disassembles a computer program, they make
printouts so they can study it. I think the court was recognizing
that as part of the disassembly. And "making printouts and photocopies"
is not always a violation of copyright law. Otherwise, the court would
have found for Sega on that ground alone.
[Snip]
>On that topic, I found this interesting site while researching these
>issues.
>http://www.urich.edu/~jolt/v1i1/liberman.html#fn2
For anybody who doesn't want to look that up, here's what the URL
points to --
[2] THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY 1292 (3d ed. 1992).
For somebody who wants to read the whole article, try --
http://www.urich.edu/~jolt/v1i1/liberman.html
It's a reasonable article about how the courts have avoided enforcing
software licensing that go considerably beyond the restrictions of
copyright law. Paragraph (35) is interesting about its comment that
something wasn't a derivative work, because it wasn't "substantially
similar" to the preexisting work.
------------------------------
From: Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:54:25 -0700
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, JS/PL wrote:
>"rj friedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:04:02 "Christopher Smith"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> �...since I disgree with the law in principle and consider
>> �most of the evidence to be irrelevant, it's hardly surprising I have a
>> �different opinion to you, no ?
>>
>>
>> The United States of America - and the European Common
>> Market - and China - and Japan - and India - all say that
>> your 'different opinion' is full of shit.
>>
>> Face reality sonny boy. It is not a case of the whole world
>> being wrong and you being right. Stick your head in the sand
>> and pretend all you want - but deep in your heart you have
>> to face the fact that you are 100% full of shit.
>
>How the hell would China know? There's not a legal copy of software
>TO_BE_FOUND_ANYWHERE in China. They are the software pirate kings of the
>Earth, not to mention the being among the worst human rights violators.
I think all their LINUX copies are legal.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'm out of here. Best wishes to all of you!
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:14:24 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> moldy_oldie
Fine we will add that to your lists of your know on-line aliases.
> with 3 kids.
Ye Gads! They are replicating!
All the best, get some help.
Good bye.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Windtrolls and Authentic Linvocates)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:52:05 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > No, you said:
> >
> > > Other than support for "drag an drop" I am unaware of any service that
> > > Explorer provides that fvwm does not. Even then most of the "drag and
> > > drop" is provided by shared libraries and explorer proper.
> >
> > My reply to that was that explorer provided other features that fvwm did
> > not.
>
> less in many respects than lynx, slightly more than netscape in others.
The explorer being discussed in Windows Explorer not Internet Explorer.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:28:04 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ne766$vvm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > It was also supposed to support
> > multiple logins like unix does.
>
> It does and always has.
>
> Or are we going to get the "doesn't ship with a telnet server" argument
> again ?
What about terminals connected through serial ports? Does it support that
out of the box as the prerelease papers stated?
> > Rememer, NT was going to be the better unix than unix.
>
> No, it wasn't. It was meant to replace Novell, not Unix (something at
which
> it has done exceedingly well - now Microsoft have decided to take aim on
> Unix).
That was the slogan on the banners at a Windows software development seminar
being host by Microsoft prior the the public release of NT. Don't you mean
to take aim on Unix again?
------------------------------
Subject: Linux Presidential Candidates?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 16 Aug 2000 22:02:35 -0600
Some Netcraft fun (in alphabetic order):
-=Libertarian=-
www.harrybrowne2000.org is running Apache/1.2.5 FrontPage/3.0.4 on BSD/OS
-=Reform=-
www.buchananreform.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98
-=Republican=-
www.bush2000.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 (proxy in use, no OS guess)
-=Democrat=-
www.algore2000.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) PHP/4.0.1pl2
secured_by_Raven/1.5.1 on Linux
-=Reform=-
www.hagelin.org is running Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.4 FrontPage/4.0.4.3 on IRIX
-=Green=-
www.votenader.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) PHP/4.0.0 on BSD/OS
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:08:00 -0700
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Lars Tr�ger wrote:
>Bob B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >You guys RUINED the NT Brand by over promising and giving it a bad
>> >reputation as it was evaluated by standards to which it could not
>> >achieve. NT was a good PC OS but boy was it over sold and MS had to dump
>> >the NT Brand to be taken seriously --
>>
>> Yes, NT was a failure in the marketplace and they had to change
>> the name. Just like Apple OS 9 is a failure and they had to
>> introduce OS X.
>
>Apple changed the name because it is a completely different OS.
OS X is "OS ten" It's a minor change in name relative to the BSD roots of the
OS.
><snip>
>> >DO MS a favor - shut up.
>>
>> Apple might ask the same of you.
>>
>> Bob B.
>
>Apple? Joseph is a Linux user.
Newly. I've added it to my OS/2 PC (a la System Commander2000) to try out
for a few weeks.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 04:29:27 GMT
On 17 Aug 2000 03:53:36 GMT, Lee Hollaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Generally, when somebody disassembles a computer program, they make
>printouts so they can study it. I think the court was recognizing
>that as part of the disassembly. And "making printouts and photocopies"
>is not always a violation of copyright law. Otherwise, the court would
>have found for Sega on that ground alone.
>
I think the court's position was that copyright could not protect
functionality (the way patent law might). Thus if the only way to
analyze or reverse engineer the software to get at those unprotectable
elements required making copies of disassembled code, then such
copying had to be allowed.
Isaac (posting less, but enjoying usenet more!!)
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:43:04 -0400
fred wrote:
>
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:24:52 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >fred wrote:
> >> Come on Aaron, out with it. When did you first install Linux, and how
> >> many upgrades have you done since?
> >
> >first install: 1996.
> >two upgrades at home.
> >
> >At work: All of Kmart corporation's Linux experimentations at the
> >corporate headquarters were done off of one set of RedHat CD-ROM's
> >(as of my departure in June 1999).
>
> Hmm, so does this Linux experiment explain the sudden dip in K-Mart
> stock price in June of 1999?
How would an experiment with no business impact affect the price of
stock?
>
> :-)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re:
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:45:44 -0400
Christopher Smith wrote:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8n98og$h71$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Stephen S. Edwards II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8n8388
> >
> > > However, WindowsNT was designed with a GUI in mind.
> >
> > But NOT intergrated. The original design had the NT kernel as a sepperate
> > and independent unit. Above the kernel would be different programming
> > environments including the core of the GUIs. Then above the environment
> and
> > the GUIs would have been the user interfaces. In effect it was a
> > reimplementation of the unix kenel running X and window managers running
> on
> > X.
>
> Presumably by "above" etc here you mean only the kernel was running in ring
> 0 and everything else wasn't ?
>
> This is precisely how NT was implemented, prior to version 4.0. Afterwards,
> the GDI was moved to run at the same privilege level as the kernel, for
> performance reasons.
>
> > NT was also supposed to have command line environments that would not
> > require a GUI to even be installed.
>
> It did, AFAIK, up to 3.51.
>
> The overhead of the GUI, when not being used, is tiny.
>
> > It was also supposed to support
> > multiple logins like unix does.
>
> It does and always has.
>
> Or are we going to get the "doesn't ship with a telnet server" argument
> again ?
>
> > Rememer, NT was going to be the better unix than unix.
>
> No, it wasn't. It was meant to replace Novell, not Unix (something at which
> it has done exceedingly well - now Microsoft have decided to take aim on
> Unix).
HAR! HAR! HAR!
Back in the days of Neutered Technology 3.X, Bill was claiming that
Neutered Technology 4. would be "a better Unix than Unix"
So, from that statement, one can ONLY conclude that M$ already tried to
"take aim on Unix" and thus far, has failed miserably.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E.
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:48:24 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >I concur with all of this. If Linux does fragment it will because of
> >outside influences. The problem is that the fragmentation may already be
> >starting. I have already seen some signs of it with Mandrake and Linux PPC.
>
> I think fragmentation is not only inevitable, it is optimal. As much as
Quite true. That's why, technologically, the Unix-hoard runs FAR
ahead of M$-ware, and the gap is widening all the time.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:52:53 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > No, you said:
> > >
> > > > Other than support for "drag an drop" I am unaware of any service that
> > > > Explorer provides that fvwm does not. Even then most of the "drag and
> > > > drop" is provided by shared libraries and explorer proper.
> > >
> > > My reply to that was that explorer provided other features that fvwm did
> > > not.
> >
> > less in many respects than lynx, slightly more than netscape in others.
>
> The explorer being discussed in Windows Explorer not Internet Explorer.
Two heads of the same beast.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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