Linux-Advocacy Digest #553, Volume #28 Tue, 22 Aug 00 03:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: (Courageous)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("JS/PL")
Re: refrigerator using Linux? ("Mike")
Re: refrigerator using Linux? ("Mike")
Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted to ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted to ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Global / Usefull feature from XTREE (Mathias Winkler)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:10:55 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>> Well, here's how an old Word 2.0 macro I used in my coursebook
>> preparation template. I'd originally hoped to eventually integrate this
>
>In unix programming parlance, this is more of a function than a macro.
>> ================================================================
>> Public Sub MAIN()
[...]
Yes, I know, the word "macro" is used in many different contexts. I was
hoping to avoid that issue, as most people seemed to understand that I
meant "macros" like WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 (and later, of course,
Word and Excel) used (before VB). In some contexts, it might be called
a "program", in a "fourth generation programming language". I call it a
macro in a macro language, and BASIC makes a dynamite template for a
macro language.
It is only now that I realize there is a current context for saying what
I've been trying to say about Visual Basic since before it was released.
Back when it was only the replacement for the Word Basic macro language,
and an overhaul of the Excel macro feature (which was a bizarre but
functional mechanism which was lifted almost entirely from Lotus), I
hated it. What's more, as it developed into Visual Basic As We Know It,
I realized two things:
1) It was the end of practical end-user automation capabilities on
Windows
2) It was going to be considered unacceptable, even hated, by real
programmers
It seemed obvious (I was already passed being merely suspicious, though
I must admit I was still naive as to the extent of Microsoft's
shenanigans) that MS was doing this for a reason, an anti-competitive
reason. There was practically no way MS could have screwed over more
people than if they had announced that they were simply ripping the
macro features out of both products. It seemed most likely they were
trying to kill Borland's and others' toolkits/programming environments,
and there was an affinity with the promise to merge the macro languages
into a system-wide utility.
But they were obviously doing a terrible job of it, and while I can't
say I'm in great admiration of Microsoft's technical design methods,
they hire real professional programmers, I figured. This VB thing was
too mangled to be simply crappy software; it was almost like what VB was
trying to do was a Bad Idea. And it wasn't. There is a strong need for
an *ultra-accessible* method of automation for *trivial* things that
non-specialists can benefit from.
Now I finally realize what words I was missing to explain what was wrong
with that picture. One was sparked by this discussion: fourth
generation programming language. The other came from Judge TP Jackson
(sort of): middleware.
This second term, as it was used at the time VB was introduced, wouldn't
have fit, which is why I refer to the recent anti-trust trial, rather
than the true origin of the term in RDBMS development in the late 80s.
Ironically, this is where the term "4GL" comes from, as well, but they
were never linked in this way, AFAIK. A 4GL was the programming
language of what at that time were high-end RDBMS systems [sic], such as
dBase and Paradox. This term was associated by extension to the macro
languages of high-end desktop applications, like WordPerfect and 1-2-3,
though, again, not much at the time. The original "middleware" was the
functional software layer which could/would be used to "make up the
difference", essentially, of what wasn't standardized by SQL. It never
really gelled, but the concept has drifted around attaching to various
"abstraction layers", until it was picked up by someone, I guess, in the
Microsoft trial to describe the "threat" to the OS monopoly which
Netscape encompassed.
So the reason I think that VB sucks is because it is an anti-competitive
attempt to prevent any 4GL, acting as middleware, from threatening the
OS monopoly by turning it into a 3GL. It makes for a lousy 3GL that is
so bad at being a 4GL that it has completely destroyed the awareness of
the importance of a 4GL on a PC system.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:12:39 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[...]
>It is far from useless. It has SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the number of
>hit-and-run attacks by the individuals named within...which is
>EXACTLY what I designed it to do.
That's selection bias, Aaron. It is useless except as an annoyance, and
it annoys everyone rather equally, more or less.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re:
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:15:14 GMT
> That's selection bias, Aaron. It is useless except as an annoyance, and
> it annoys everyone rather equally, more or less.
Not to mention the fact that it's very poor netiquette.
Kind of fishy, coming from a self-styled Unix guy.
C//
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:51:36 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Joe Ragosta in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> Recognizing that 'JS/PL' isn't a real person, I "spoke into the mike"
> for him, and am well within the bounds of reason for ridiculing his
> overly-dramatic concern.
Oh yes.. I'm a real person. But I do realize murderers have trouble
recognizing humans to be different from objects.
>
> >I received a real death threat from usenet once (he located my address
> >and said he was coming there to kill me. Believe me, it's not a fun
> >situation (there are too many loonies around).
>
> Which is why I pointed out that the fact that this 'JS/PL' person
> thought it important to point out he had found out my first name is
> "Timothy" was worth some concern. I know how to handle such threats,
> and 'JS/PL' can be sure in the knowledge that I will not warn him over
> Usenet when I've made it an official criminal or civil matter.
That would be a switch. You threaten my life by saying "I want to kill
JS/PL. Did you get that? Would you like me to repeat it?"
and I'm somehow at fault for this statement. I suppose if you raped someone
it would be their fault for being so sexy.
> >Fortunately, I notified his ISP who notified the account holder -- who
> >happened to be his wife. I suspect that her punishment was worse than
> >anything I could have come up with.
> >
> >Anyway, there's no reason for Usenet arguments to enter into the real
> >world. If JS/PL feels that the line has been crossed, it's his right to
> >react the way he did.
When someone says "I want to kill JS/PL. Did you get that? Would you like
me to repeat it?" I deem that statement to be a pretty good indication of
their intentions. It is also illegal to deliver death threats, it is a third
degree felony in T. Max Devlins home state, and intimidation of a victim or
witness of said crime is another offence altogether. So he's digging himself
in deeper with every statement to me on the matter. I'm sure delivering that
statement accross state lines is probably a Federal offence as well.
> I'll let the police deal with the ISPs if I ever feel I'm actually being
> threatened. He is not within his rights to harass me under the pretense
> that I made a death threat on his pseudonym.
There you go again, it's my fault you commited the crime isn't it Max?
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:23:35 GMT
"Brian Langenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8nrm38$hfa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <snip!>
>
> : <and snip some more!>
> :
> : An embedded OS might make sense in my VCR. The new disk based VCRs are
> : really cool, and connecting them to a computer might not be so bad - if
the
> : programming interface was better. You could even have the computer
download
> : the correct time from NIST once a day and download it into the VCR, as
well
> : as greatly simplifying the programming interface (it would be a whole
lot
> : easier to just click on the show to record that to go through the
trouble of
> : programming the start and stop times).
>
> I wouldn't mind a bit of home computerization, myself, if only to
> elimate all the duplication of effort. For example, look at all the
> appliances that have little LED clocks on them. Every time the
> power blips or daylight savings time rolls around, I need to wander
> the house changing the stupid things. Wouldn't it be nice if they
> were just "clock clients" that get their time from a single source?
> And, if that single source has a keyboard, it would make setting
> timers a whole helluva lot easier than the one or two buttons
> many appliances have for the purpose.
>
> I'm not too hopeful of a home network of dumb appliances, but I can
> think of a few ways that it would come in handy.
I think you're onto something here. Forget embedding Linux in my coffee
maker, but it does have a built in clock, as does my microwave (although I
can't figure out why), my oven, and my dishwasher (this is even more absurd:
"Honey, what time is it?" "I don't know, let me check the dishwasher...").
Right. My clocks all have clocks, of course, as does my VCR, and my
answering machine.
There's very little I ever want these appliances to do, besides what they
were meant to do. But I would love it if they all had some exceptionally
simple and cheap interface that allowed them to connect to each other
through an exceptionally simple and cheap interface to find out what they
needed to know (which just happens to be, in almost every case, the time).
That could be implemented simply and cheaply, and could communicate over
something cheap and readily available like a phone cord (but not that, since
then everyone would be trying to take phone calls with the Mr. Coffee).
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:37:38 GMT
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8nm9js$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan Jacobson wrote:
> >What's this I read that even a refrigerator could be using Linux? To
help me visual
> >modem, printer, GPS [Global positioning system]... so let's say the PC
was shrunk do
> >brains; I suppose upon booting [i.e., when the AC cord is plugged in]
there would
> >immediately throw the computer into a loop controlling the
refrigerator... ok, go
> >Micro$oft stuff here? couldn't the same be achieved with autoexec.bat?
Or is th
>
> No, it's simply that I want my fridge to keep my food at the correct
temperature
> all of the time 24x7x365. I do not want to re-boot after installing
oranges.
>
> I do not want a fridge which is reliable enough for the average microsoft
> victim.
Nor one that requires a Unix sysadmin to operate.
A simple logic circuit is all that's required. Not even a 4004.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted to
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:21:54 -0400
Thermodynamic wrote:
>
> Did you know that Microsoft, Corel, and others are trying to make it so that
> any document or spreadsheet or whatever that you make on their production
> software automatically becomes THEIR copyright? We buy the LICENSE to use
It will never fly in court, for the simple fact that you cannot
claim a copyright for someone ELSE's intellectual property.
The document which you create is YOUR intellectual property.
The Word file or whatever is merely the *formatting* of that
intellectual
property (just as your copyright to anything you write or draw is valid
regardless of whether it is a file on a disk, printed in a book, or
engraved on a wall).
> THEIR software and the legal issues which are thrown into the faces of
> anybody installing the software make that clear. We use their tools. Oh, I
> write a paragraph commentary and send to ZD NET or BIRD TALK MAGAZINE for
> their magazine or online commentary - it automatically becomes their
> property according to their legal notice -- this news is no surprise to me
> and if I cared about making or losing money from my viewpoint I'd never post
> anywhere. Sad, but true and it's an outrage against consumers. Yes, that's
> Corel which also visibly supports Linux and you can now understand why.
> Applications will end up being infinitely more lucrative than just the
> operating system and Corel is making sure you pay for it.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:24:42 -0400
Jim Broughton wrote:
>
> Thermodynamic wrote:
> >
> > Did you know that Microsoft, Corel, and others are trying to make it so that
> > any document or spreadsheet or whatever that you make on their production
> > software automatically becomes THEIR copyright? We buy the LICENSE to use
> > THEIR software and the legal issues which are thrown into the faces of
> > anybody installing the software make that clear. We use their tools. Oh, I
> > write a paragraph commentary and send to ZD NET or BIRD TALK MAGAZINE for
> > their magazine or online commentary - it automatically becomes their
> > property according to their legal notice -- this news is no surprise to me
> > and if I cared about making or losing money from my viewpoint I'd never post
> > anywhere. Sad, but true and it's an outrage against consumers. Yes, that's
> > Corel which also visibly supports Linux and you can now understand why.
> > Applications will end up being infinitely more lucrative than just the
> > operating system and Corel is making sure you pay for it.
>
> Can you coroborate this? If what your say has even one grain of truth to
> all it will take is 1 lawsuite and that will end. Copyright laws are very
> susinct if you write its your copyright. Its like saying smith-corona claims
> your work because you used their typewriter to do it.
In the spirit of Microsoft's official FUD policy, this rumor should be
modified to talk ONLY about Microsoft, and be circulated as widely as
possible.
After all, what's good for Microsoft's competitors is good for
Microsoft, eh?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Open source won't protect you - how licensing is being perverted to
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:23:23 -0400
Courageous wrote:
>
> > >Did you know that Microsoft, Corel, and others are trying to make it so
> > >that any document or spreadsheet or whatever that you make on their
> > >production software automatically becomes THEIR copyright?
>
> I believe that you are talking out of your ass. The reason
> I believe this is that, 1, you presented no evidence, and
> that, 2, no commerical organization would be so dumb as to
> attempt to arrange a situation which would cause every
> executive in corporate america to issue broadcast memoranda
> to every employee in their companies to immediately cease
> and desist using the aforementioned products.
>
> Which is exactly what would happen, you know. It would happen
> the very same day. In fact, it would be backed by little
> well meant talks from patronizing human resource personell
> if you didn't comply. "Mr. Thermodynamic, I know you mean
> well, but your continued employment at this organization is
> at will, I should have no need to remind you, and Mr. Big
> really doesn't want you using Word. Now sign this paper right
> here to aknowledge your official reprimand."
>
> Corporations take their intellectual property quite seriously,
> and if Microsoft tried to pull this particular stunt, you'd
> see a stinger of a backlash so high and hard, I truly doubt
> Microsoft would survive it. The lasting rancor and poor customer
> sentiment wouldn't be lived down for a decade.
>
> But this is all hyperbole.
>
> I suspect you're making this up.
On the other hand...it's a good anti-microsoft FUD rumor.
Maybe it's time to give them a taste of their own medicine.
heheheheheheh
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mathias Winkler)
Subject: Re: Global / Usefull feature from XTREE
Date: 22 Aug 2000 06:39:21 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <8nrj4s$nn7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> In the "old" DOS Filemanager XTREE (or Ztree on win32) there is a nice
>> feature using the key G (like global).
>>
> I am not saying that it should not be or has not been implemented in a
> unix filemanager. In fact that is or was a filemanager called Ltree
> which is a Linux clone of Xtree, so there is a good chance that it would
> have that feature.
Now there is a new, powerfule XTree clone for Linux and other Unixes, its
called "UnixTree", its Freeware, and its available for a number of
platforms for download at its homepage "UnixTree home" at:
http://www.arkanda.net/unixtree/
BTW: It has an 'G'lobal command !
And: It is *very_useful* !!
Because: UnixTree lets you log to portions of your filesystem (it calls it
"Nodes"), so you can log to "/home/user" and to "/usr/local" for example,
much like in DOS XTree you have been logging to, let's say, drive C: and D:
or so. And, here the 'G'lobal command comes into play and makes sense!
Best regards
Mathias
--
Mathias Winkler // Muenchen/Munich, Germany
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] // Planet Arkanda Homepage unter/at:
http://www.arkanda.net beinhaltet/hosts:
XTree Fan Page , UnixTree home , Celibidache Schueler Im Internet
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
